Buying a boom, windscreen and shock mount.

Swaneon... if you take away anything from this thread it's this: don't buy the Rode SM3. It's plastic, and it will fall apart. It happened to my friend who owned one, and they're the textbook example of a casual user. I also think your best choice is the K-Tek K-MT. I have a Lyre suspension system in my Rycote blimp, and I like it for the blimp. But for basic indoor and light outdoor booming with a softie windscreen, I prefer using my K-Tek shockmount. I looked into getting a Lyre shockmount for indoor and light outdoor use, but, the Lyre's have different tolerances depending on what kind of windscreen you're using. For example, some Lyres are strong enough to suspend a shotgun with a foam windscreen, but if you put a softie on the mic, the suspenders can't take the weight and the system doesn't work. There are Lyres that are resilient enough for both kinds of windscreens, but I just wanted something that was well-designed and strong, that I wouldn't mix up with another shockmount down the road and end up screwed because I accidentally brought the wrong one. I wanted to buy this shockmount once, and have it last my entire life. I went with the K-Tek. My two cents.
 
I too can testify about the good performance of the lyre mounts, and they are quite cheap for what they do. Something too add though is that the product line is made to fit many different mics, but since differences in weight and placement affects performance the results may vary. Rycote makes mounts of different softness and length to better suit certain mics (I think they also have made special orders), and you should search for what is recommended for the mic(s) you intend to use.
 
Chris Woolf said:
> .... a true microphone suspension gives you is a true three dimensional suspension on the x, y, and z axis. So something like the KGPS or KMT are great choices. If not, then the PSC Universal shock mount is another great go to at a lower cost. Even the older Rycote suspensions worked great. I have found the the Lyre shock mount does not give you 3 dimensions of isolation. [Dave Fisk]>

Well that ~is~ an interesting set of comments! Where to start?



The Lyre mounts have superseded basic elastic suspensions precisely because they can be measured to isolate far more effectively than rubber or band mounts. No wild claims, no sales b**lsh*t, just honest science.


Chris Woolf (who knows a thing or two about microphone suspensions)
Click to expand...



When I was talking about suspending the mic in three dimensions, I'm talking up and down, side to side, and front to back. For proper suspension you need good isolation on all of those. Some shock mounts don't offer that. In my time as a sound recording professional, both in the studio, on set, and in extreme sound effects recording conditions (think microphones mounted to race cars drifting around a track at high rates of speed pulling several G's), I've found a really good suspension protects you in 3 directions.

Based on my own personal experience, and a lot of feedback from seasoned professionals actually working in the field, your best bet at isolation is what I've already described. K-Tek currently used a specially made polymer for the microphone suspenders that takes into account LF as well as handling noise and movement from any direction.

The best thing to do is to go to your local audio shop and test out various mounts and suspensions. I've found that actually using and trying a variety of setups is the only way to truly find the best equipment for your needs and budget. This goes for any gear purchase.

No wild claims. No sales B.S., just real world experience.
 
Dave, imo it's all about marketing.

Rycote's strategy in licencing their custom Lyre suspension to other manufacturers is very clever.

At this rate, all elastic type suspensions, no matter how good they are, will be a thing of the past.

Cheers.
 
davefisk said:
When I was talking about suspending the mic in three dimensions, I'm talking up and down, side to side, and front to back. For proper suspension you need good isolation on all of those. Some shock mounts don't offer that. In my time as a sound recording professional, both in the studio, on set, and in extreme sound effects recording conditions (think microphones mounted to race cars drifting around a track at high rates of speed pulling several G's), I've found a really good suspension protects you in 3 directions.

Based on my own personal experience, and a lot of feedback from seasoned professionals actually working in the field, your best bet at isolation is what I've already described. K-Tek currently used a specially made polymer for the microphone suspenders that takes into account LF as well as handling noise and movement from any direction.

The best thing to do is to go to your local audio shop and test out various mounts and suspensions. I've found that actually using and trying a variety of setups is the only way to truly find the best equipment for your needs and budget. This goes for any gear purchase.

No wild claims. No sales B.S., just real world experience.
Click to expand...


Dave,

Chris Woolf is the most respected audio consultant and designer in the UK - he knows more about the science and practice of microphone suspensions than just about anyone else on the planet.

He has tested and used every single type of suspension by almost every manufacturer and has a thorough understanding of how things *really* work.

Any suspension has to compromise somewhere - if you make it fully compliant in all directions the mic. will wobble and droop and have problems elsewhere.

The Rycote Lyre has the greatest compliance in the direction where it is really necessary.

Also people do forget that handling noise is also transmitted along the cable and if you don't also get all this right you will be blaming the suspension when it is actually the cable causing the problem. Hence the Rycote ConnBox and S-series XLR tail to help eliminate this part of the problem.

Chris is an independent consultant and designer, though he has been employed by Rycote to do design work for them. He is not a salesman and I have found him to always be extremely honest and fair to all makes of product.
 
John,

That's all well and good, but I have to stress that making a claim is one thing, and real world experience is something else. I have learned through working in manufacturing that you can run all the computer models you want on something, the real world is a different place.

Yes, all mounts and suspensions have a compromise. I get that. I have used just about everything out there in the most intense environments, and I've seen what works and what doesn't. I really don't appreciate somebody (ANYbody) saying I am making wild claims and using sales B.S.. That's essentially calling me a liar, and that is uncalled for. I base my claims on my own personal experience, and the experience of many other sound professionals that I have spoken with over the years. There are no wild claims or sales B.S. anywhere. That is why I said that people should try the gear for themselves. Don't take my word for it. Go test the gear out and you'll see which stuff works best for you.
 
davefisk said:
John,

That's all well and good, but I have to stress that making a claim is one thing, and real world experience is something else. I have learned through working in manufacturing that you can run all the computer models you want on something, the real world is a different place.

Yes, all mounts and suspensions have a compromise. I get that. I have used just about everything out there in the most intense environments, and I've seen what works and what doesn't. I really don't appreciate somebody (ANYbody) saying I am making wild claims and using sales B.S.. That's essentially calling me a liar, and that is uncalled for. I base my claims on my own personal experience, and the experience of many other sound professionals that I have spoken with over the years. There are no wild claims or sales B.S. anywhere. That is why I said that people should try the gear for themselves. Don't take my word for it. Go test the gear out and you'll see which stuff works best for you.
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Dave,

I never said you were making wild claims or talking BS - I never said that.

I was just pointing out the expertise of the expert you were questioning - and he *has* plenty of real world experience having started out in the BBC.

I never inferred anyone was a liar - but you were questioning someone who is the recognised master in the field - and master not just by running computer models, but by many long years of practical experience, experimentation and solid scientific knowledge.

And also the original designer of mounts, suspensions and windshields that have been copied by many other companies.
 
John Willett said:
Dave,

I never said you were making wild claims or talking BS - I never said that.

I was just pointing out the expertise of the expert you were questioning - and he *has* plenty of real world experience having started out in the BBC.

I never inferred anyone was a liar - but you were questioning someone who is the recognised master in the field - and master not just by running computer models, but by many long years of practical experience, experimentation and solid scientific knowledge.

And also the original designer of mounts, suspensions and windshields that have been copied by many other companies.
Click to expand...

John,

I never said you called me a liar, and I apologize if it came off that way. Chris did. He said "No wild claims, no sales B.S." at the end of his post, after quoting part of a post I made. He started his post in a very condescending way, implying I don't know what I'm talking about. Granted, I don't have the years of experience in manufacturing that Chris has, but I have been around the block long enough to know what I'm talking about, I've learned a lot over the past 12 years from so many professionals in the production audio community (something that very few people have had the opportunity to get to do...visiting countless sets, consulting with the top of the line sound mixers). I have no doubt Chris has done the same, but I really don't appreciate being belittled.

I respect Chris' experience and contributions to what we all do. I have never met him, so I don't want to insult him in any way, and if anything I posted came off as insulting, I'm sorry. The beauty of what we do (manufacturing) is that competition stimulates innovation. We are always looking to improve on what we make, and create new products to solve new problems, AND help bring down costs if possible.
 
Chris Woolf said:
> .... a true microphone suspension gives you is a true three dimensional suspension on the x, y, and z axis. So something like the KGPS or KMT are great choices. If not, then the PSC Universal shock mount is another great go to at a lower cost. Even the older Rycote suspensions worked great. I have found the the Lyre shock mount does not give you 3 dimensions of isolation. [Dave Fisk]>

Well that ~is~ an interesting set of comments! Where to start?

All microphone suspensions necessarily support the mic in three dimensions - otherwise the mic would fall out. What is important is how compliant the mount is on any one axis. In plain language, how much give there is in the mount to absorb shocks and vibration.

The older style Rycote methods, and most other commercially available systems, have to make do with roughly the same compliance on all three axes. If you make that high enough to work well at really low frequencies the mount becomes dangerously sloppy, and the mic crashes uncontrollably. If you make the suspension stiff enough to prevent the mic wobbling scarily, then the resonant frequency of the mount (which determines the lowest frequency it can isolate at) rises uncomfortably high. This is all schoolbook physics.

What you ~can~ do to improve things is to give different axes different compliances, and that's what the Rycote Lyre does. Axial mics are far more sensitive to acceleration on the z-axis - along the body. So you can give this axis a low tension and allow massive displacement to produce near-ideal performance in isolation terms, with a splendidly low resonant frequency. But at the same time you can make the X and Y axes quite stiff to allow the user good control over the mic. The mount won't wobble around excessively, but it will absorb enormous amounts of LF energy on the axis that matters.

Rycote even took this idea further to allow high dual-axis compliance for side-fire studio mics, but still leaving the third axis stiff to prevent the mic sagging, as it always does in old-fashioned elastic band mounts. http://www.rycote.com/products/invision_studio_kit/

The Lyre mounts have superseded basic elastic suspensions precisely because they can be measured to isolate far more effectively than rubber or band mounts. No wild claims, no sales b**lsh*t, just honest science.


Chris Woolf (who knows a thing or two about microphone suspensions)
Click to expand...

John Willett said:
Regarding shockmounts and microphone suspensions - I think you will find this PDF article very useful:-

Keeping Microphones Quiet

The author tests all types of suspension and pictures the graphs showing the results - very useful.
Click to expand...

These posts are both a few years old but I just wanted to say THANK YOU! Really went far in explaining how they function.
 
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