Burning to DVD - not impresssed with quality

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Denialorcoped

Well-known member
I must say I am a bit disappointed with how my footage looks on DVD.

Here's what I did:

Filmed in 720, 24p. Used Neoscene to convert to avi. Editied in Premiere using 1280x720, square pixels. For DVD, I exported as an MPEG2, dv 1.2.

Brought the MPEG2 into Encore, and it the final product looks like a vhs tape, definitely not HD quality.

Anyone else do something different that looks better, PLEASE TELL!!!
 
Denialorcoped said:
definitely not HD quality.
Click to expand...

If you made a regular DVD, as in DVD-video, its NOT supposed to be HD quality . DVD is standard definition (720x480 in NTSC regions)

If you meant this is a bad looking DVD compared to other DVD's you need to provide more info: e.g what bitrate did you use ?

If you want to make an AVCHD disc (playable in most blu-ray players or PS3) on DVD media , then you can get HD resolution and it will look much better . Encore doesn't allow this authoring on DVD5/9 media but you could use a free program called multiavchd to do this
 
A problem with the avchd disc is that I converted all my avchd files to avi using neoscene in order to get smoother editing.

Is there any way to keep the 1280x720 ratio? Do I need to get a bluray burner and burn it to a bluray?
 
+1 to what PDR said. With that the DVD's I have created look so much better than DVDs that were sourced on SD cameras. The down res from HD makes a much better picture IMO. With that said I have seen some of my DVD material on a 55" and it looked bad but I think it was due to crappy player and a system that wasnt set up right to begin with. Have you watched your DVD on a SD tv?
 
I watched it on a 720p 42" tv, and it didn't look that great. It just wasn't sharp-looking. I put that same dvd I created into my laptop and it looked better; but ultimately I would like to have footage on a disc that looks like true hd-720p footage.

While we're on the topic too, if down the road I want a film to play at an art house theater or something, don't I need to submit in the form of a disc? If it looks this bad on my 42" it must looks even worse on a theatrical screen.
 
No you don't need a blu-ray burner, you can use red laser for AVCHD disc (on DVD 5/9 media). You need a blu-ray burner for BD25/50 media . But you do need blu-ray player to view HD material

Standard DVD will always look bad compared AVCHD disc (assuming it's done properly.) You can't get around the fact that there is a significant difference in resolution (1280x720 vs. 720x480).

It doesn't matter if you use cineform. It has to be re-encoded at some point anyway no matter what you do (for DVD, blu-ray or avchd, or web etc...)

RE: art house theater ,etc, it would be best to contact them directly and see what requirements they have (e.g. if they don't have a blu-ray player, you're not going to send them an AVCHD or blu-ray disc)

There are differences in scaling between different software, hardware (different algorithms). So you can't compare viewing on your HDTV vs. laptop screen
 
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1 more thing I noticed. That when burning to dvd you have to use 29.97fps.

So if 720 24p is the 'sweet spot' for the camera, you have to end up interlacing the footage to covert to a dvd? That kinda sucks!
 
Denialorcoped said:
1 more thing I noticed. That when burning to dvd you have to use 29.97fps.

So if 720 24p is the 'sweet spot' for the camera, you have to end up interlacing the footage to covert to a dvd? That kinda sucks!
Click to expand...

You can make a progressive DVD.

Resize and encode as 24p (24000/1001) ie. progressive and add soft pulldown flags after . This is the same thing as soft telecine (24p in 60i with flags)

This way you get the benefits and quality of progressive encoding, and retain compatibility with DVD players . Soft telecine is not the same thing as interlacing . Most hollywood DVD's are made with telecine

eg. I use DGPulldown to process the native 24p elementary m2v stream
 
Denialorcoped said:
While we're on the topic too, if down the road I want a film to play at an art house theater or something, don't I need to submit in the form of a disc? If it looks this bad on my 42" it must looks even worse on a theatrical screen.
Click to expand...

I've projected SD DVD in a few theaters and it looked great. this ultimately comes down to the quality of their projection system.
 
Okay, here's what I did. There's a software called Cinema Craft Encoder that can export to a nice mpeg-2 from Premiere. Then, I brought that into DGPulldown, thanks PDR, to convert it from 24p to 29.97p.

So, after all that guess what happened? My Adobe Encore stopped working! Well, once I get it going again, I'll let everyone know how it looks on dvd...
 
What version of Encore ? Did you get an error message ?

At what stage did it stop working ? (importing assets ? building disc etc....) ?

I use CCE as well, but it might be a different version. I try to avoid Encore for authoring because it's not very stable.
 
okay, SOMEONE PLEASE HELP.

I used Cinema Craft Encoder to export an MPEG-2 (.m2v) from Premiere. Then, I used DGPulldown to convert the 24p as 29.97i.

Now all I gotta do is bring it into encore right? Well when I do that, all I see is a solid green screen. The mpeg plays fine in media player, but it turns to green when I bring it in encore. Anyone help???
 
I'm using Encore CS3. Using a CCE plugin for Premiere.

I wonder if the m2v is still progressive which is why it's showing up as just green. The DGpulldown should have converted it to interlaced though. Hmmm, I just don't know...
 
I'm using a different version of CCE (CCE SP2 standalone version) , but I doubt that's the problem

Maybe you're CCE settings weren't set up properly ?

Encore CS4 and CS5 work ok with this workflow , not that this fact helps you any.... In fact many other authoring suites work fine with this. e.g. Scenarist , DVDA, DVD Lab Pro
 
I can examine the stream for you , to narrow down the issue (to see if it is Encore CS3) , or some other problem

If you cut a small native sample (you could use DGIndex, for example) , and upload to a free hosting site (e.g. mediafire.com) , I can check to see if your streams are valid and if they work ok with Encore CS4 or other authoring programs, for example . If you want, you can PM me the link
 
Okay, after 3 days of this I have learned a lot, so I am going to make some key points concerning dvd format to for anyone going back to look at this thread:

1.) DVD must be in a MPEG-2

2.) DVD must be in a 720x480 pixel ratio.
*This was partly why mine looked bad. I was viewing on a 720p tv, and the dvd player has to upscale from 720x480 to 1280x720, making it lose lots of quality

3.) DVD must be in 29.97fps.
*You can take 24p footage and convert it to read as 29.97 by using Dgpulldown

4.) You can increase the quality slightly by increasing the data bitrate. You probably should keep it around 8-9, going higher can cause your authoring software to crash

5.) To save time and get a better quality MPEG-2, you can use a program called cinema craft, which transcodes your file instead of the authoring software doing it for you.
*I was using the Premiere plugin, you have to click on 'compile settings' and change to the proper frame rate and aspect ratio.

Still, if anyone has input on the following please share:

-Blu-ray can project a 720p and 1080p image correct? Is it worth getting a blu-ray burner for this reason if you want your footage to look nice on 720p and 1080p televisions?

-If your film is shown on the big screen, is 720p a high enough resolution? I've heard of 2k film resolution, if you use a program such as red giant instand hd will this look okay if you upscale from 720p to 2k for the cinema screen?
 
Denialorcoped said:
3.) DVD must be in 29.97fps.
*You can take 24p footage and convert it to read as 29.97 by using Dgpulldown
Click to expand...

Not exactly - most DVD players will add a pulldown to a 24fps encoded DVD.
So the signal going out from the DVD player will still be 29.97, but you can most definitely encode a 24fps DVD.

4.) You can increase the quality slightly by increasing the data bitrate. You probably should keep it around 8-9, going higher can cause your authoring software to crash
Click to expand...

9.8 mbps is the limit of what the DVD format allows - and that is combined for both audio and video. So perhaps it was crashing due to your going outside of the specs of the format?


Blu-ray can project a 720p and 1080p image correct? Is it worth getting a blu-ray burner for this reason if you want your footage to look nice on 720p and 1080p televisions?
Click to expand...

Yes to the first question.
The second question I suppose depends on your needs.
Personally I don't feel the need for a bluray player, and I don't expect to see them around in the future... but that's just me.

If your film is shown on the big screen, is 720p a high enough resolution? I've heard of 2k film resolution, if you use a program such as red giant instand hd will this look okay if you upscale from 720p to 2k for the cinema screen?
Click to expand...

All you'll get to that question is a bunch of opinions, and the answers will all depend on where someone draws the line on what is 'good enough.'
I've personally never used Red Giant instant HD, so I have no idea.
 
Denialorcoped said:
Blu-ray can project a 720p and 1080p image correct? Is it worth getting a blu-ray burner for this reason if you want your footage to look nice on 720p and 1080p televisions?
Click to expand...

Go back and read the posts on page 1.

You need a blu-ray player or PS3 to VIEW HD content

You don't necessarily need a blu-ray burner . You can put HD content on DVD5/9 media with a normal DVD burner (red laser), it's basically an AVCHD disc. It won't play on normal DVD player, but a blu-ray player can output HD from that.

IMO, If you have HDTV, and you're shooting HD, you might as well go this route. Why shoot HD if you're only going to use SD ?

-If your film is shown on the big screen, is 720p a high enough resolution? I've heard of 2k film resolution, if you use a program such as red giant instand hd will this look okay if you upscale from 720p to 2k for the cinema screen?
Click to expand...

It depends on a lot of variables. Many people have used SD content blown up. But if yours is show right next to someone who did it properly, the difference will be like night and day.

RE: instant HD. It's garabge software. (I know , I have it). You can't make up for lost resolution. At best you can minimze aliasing during upsizing
 
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