F5: Buring S16mm lenses on the F5/55!

I would like to have the Center Scan mode available at the touch of a button, too. And I think we will see it in a future firmware update.

BTW, I totally agree with your decision to buy a used F3. I tell people all the time when they ask my advice -- if you can't afford an F55, then skip the F5 and get a used F3 and put a Atomos Samurai or Blade on the back of it. A used F3 is probably the best bargain in the industry right now.
 
Agreed. A few times I've thought of selling my F3 (w/SLOG) which I bought brand new when it came out. I've shot endless gigs with it, which has paid for itself many times over. Now, with the Pix240i hooked to it, like it even more. Since the prices have dropped so low, I'll probably keep it 'til it's a museum piece. Still shoots beautiful images.
 
Doug.

The F3 is kind of cool but still falls in a hole - yesterday I shot another job - pop vid - all overcranked - I used my FS100 - so again the F3 stayed at home!

The F3 fits my personal desire for 10bit gradable images (id prefer raw!) , but does not have the trendy bells and whistles, or brutal practicality that clients tend to want!

I would be great if Sony (or someone) could 'crack' the multi-use camera, at my 'jobbing' level each job seems to either require the fast grab and go of the EX1 or some 'arthouse look' being overcrank (Fs100) or narrow DOF (F3,FS100,Nex5n)

Im negotiating a job at the mo and the primary desire of the client is the 5dmk3 for 'DOF look' (we have one of them too!) - I'm pushing for F3 but it may not happen - which will make it 0/3 for this months paid jobs!

The other job in the wings this month is greenscreen, which will be 10bit, F3 may get it but the EX1 may win on deep DOF making for 0/4

Having this bunch of cameras is a mess. A mess of chargers, media etc, (even 'knowing the menu' - I get lost on the FS and DSLR, now using the EX/F3 menu), lens mounts bla bla, I would really really like to get shot of them all and tidy my package, I feel the F5 is so close but with the current ergonomics just not fast enough to ditch the EX1.

If sony has your ear - vote for a really nice, programmable lanc - it could change the game, ditch the EX1, chuck in an FZ speedbooster and the DSLR could go, the F5 already monsters everything the FS100 offers.

S
 
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morgan_moore said:
Doug, maybe my 'nearly good' was the wrong thing to say, maybe I should have said 'nearly brilliant', 'nearly gamechanging' or something.

There is no denying the F5/55 are good cameras.

To fully expand on the subject is very complex and really related to economics, business models and 'ways of shooting'

I certainly could afford the F5, but chose to pass on it just as I did the Red Scarlet and Canon C300. I have picked up a used F3 for £3k ( :) ) which will keep me going for a while, while cameras drop in price and a 4k infrastructure becomes manageable through my entire workflow. I hope to get a used one in a year or two.

-----

Last week I did a job at a show in Amsterdam, I would be on my feet for 14hour days and the airline allocation was one carry on (cameras) and one hold bag (sticks+clothes).

The job you might say had two sections, some live coverage and interviews, and using downtime to pick up some 'pretties' that would make the opening and closing sequences sing.

I knew that the live coverage would require very fast operating, for example covering a speech (the action) and then grabbing applause at the end of it (the reaction)

In an 'action and reaction' environment 10 seconds is an absolute age, the applause to a corporate speech can easily die in 3 seconds.

When planning the job it became apparent to me that I would need a 'proper video camera' to cover half of this job (the action reaction)- a camera with a large zoom range (and a focus check button on the finger tip, easy audio pots, IS, et al)

I chose my EX1 to be my 'A' camera for the trip.

Now the EX1 is not too good at 'pretties' so I filled the rest of my carry on allowance with a camera system that would allow me to shoot the 'pretties'..

I chose my NEX5n and a couple of fast primes to fill that space - the NEX and a 50 1.8 does have a great look for the mass/size it added to the camera package.

So I own and F3 and left it at home.

If I owned an F5 I probably would have left that at home to and still chosen to travel with my EX1 and Nex5n

The F5 is marginally usable in an action and reaction environment , if you own a cabrio, or maybe ENGzoom/converter combo*, it comes closer, if the focus check, audio pots, and crop mode were accessible in an instant it would come a lot closer for covering 'action and reaction'

Sony have incredible tech in the 5/55 cameras, powerful chips/processors, proper ND; the engine of these cameras is awesome, it would seems to me that developing 'telepathic' or at least 'brilliant' ergonomics would be a small part of the development budget and probably add nothing to the final cost.

Maybe a nice lanc controller that did add to the cost - but I wold buy it at the drop of a hat because it would entirely change the camera's usability.

Mix the 5/55 and 17-55 and a single button crop mode at the finger tip would hugely move the cameras towards being usable for 'action reaction' filming meaning the single camera would become appropriate for both 'the pretties' and the 'action reaction' - such design would 'change the game' and relegate my EX1/NEX5n to the bin of history.

From where I sit in that poor little world of single carry on budgets and no assistants I still feel the 5/55 are only 'nearly good'

S


*although both the cabrio and ENGlens/converter would probably put it over the carry on limit and the 'carryable for 14 hours' limit
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That's why I think using an F5/ F55 now with an affordable S16mm zoom lens with a range of say 15-100mm -if you arehappy to shoot 2k/ HD - could be a really useful combination, until you can afford a PL mount zoom lens.
 
Yes I think the F5 crop S16 combo is a really really really good thing. A long way to dumping the EX1!

I don't know if there is an 'affordable' S16 zoom (or rather to me the F5 and a new $5k zoom was over my budget)

I don't mean an old flare monster (which I would think really cool but might baffle a corporate client) - but a sharp crisp flare free zoom

For shooting a 'serious' and funded documentary I think 2kcrop/crisp S16zoom and F55 would be the system I would choose over any camera system on the planet (over an amera/cabrio/red anything)

To me a 'pop to crop button' would bring 17-55 and other lenses on the the map, and also offer better lowlight when using 'fullframe' mode.

--

BTW IMO a 15-xx S16 zoom would not be wide enough (for 'action reaction') , you would need to be starting in the 10-12 range, probably 10 or even 8, I dont know the FOV of my EX1 at the wide end, but I do know it is not wide enough, the EX1 zoom is far longer than I normally need. The 6 lens I covet is the 8-64 canon which is not a bargain.

S
 
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Not to start a brand war, but I recently got a C500 with an Odyssey. Wasn't sure I'd like it, but it's becoming the Swiss Army knife of cameras to me. Stripped-down, it's small and lightweight with a good internal codec (50Mbps to CF cards), yet I can pimp it to go 4K RAW to the Odyssey. Both are great in their arena and offer a wide range of choice. However, the lens game is still unending and is difficult for run-n-gun with pulling focus, etc. (I suppose the F55 is kinda the same Swiss Army knife, except the RAW recording is much more device-specific).

Been thinking of a PMW-300 for those frantic gigs where time and efficiency exceeds the beauty shot. After shooting S35 and/or full-frame for so long, might find myself not happy in post (which is purely my own issue, no the client's!) ;)
 
LeavingTheCandy said:
Not to start a brand war, but I recently got a C500 with an Odyssey. Wasn't sure I'd like it, but it's becoming the Swiss Army knife of cameras to me. Stripped-down, it's small and lightweight with a good internal codec (50Mbps to CF cards), yet I can pimp it to go 4K RAW to the Odyssey. Both are great in their arena and offer a wide range of choice. However, the lens game is still unending and is difficult for run-n-gun with pulling focus, etc. (I suppose the F55 is kinda the same Swiss Army knife, except the RAW recording is much more device-specific).

Been thinking of a PMW-300 for those frantic gigs where time and efficiency exceeds the beauty shot. After shooting S35 and/or full-frame for so long, might find myself not happy in post (which is purely my own issue, no the client's!) ;)
Click to expand...

I think mainly the canons fall over in the same manner as the Sony cams - no good for fast work (I love both the C500 and the F55!) but if the job is 'carry on' or 'solo' you cant easily add in 1/3 or 2/3 cam for those hectic moments.

If you want a brand war, the C500 misses, crop mode, HFR, GS, onboard raw, and has no (theoretical) space for a speed-booster, wont swap between stills lenses and PL, and needs to be rigged like a christmas tree does it not?

S
 
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Just out of interest, how would you know which S16mm would vignette on the F3/F55 using central scan -would most of them cover the sensor? Would for example this be the case with a S16mm lens with a 10-100mm range?
 
I dont really know enough about those lenses - apart from to know you must proceed with caution.

I think the 10-xx zeiss may not cover (it is 16 not S16) there is a conversion of the same lens that is 12-xx that covers S16.

Im sure older film types can help.

S
 
Morgan, yes the Canon lens game sucks. Either you are PL or EF and not much opportunity for options. Back to my earlier post, what I DO like is that it can be stripped down really small and use Canon's EF glass (great zooms, etc.) and record to a decent codec. The RAW 4K option is available when you wanna go big, but needs a recorder. Odyssey will record Canon's raw, but does so to DPX file sequences, which is grand--for a few. They are promising "popular compressed codec" in the FEB release, but who knows.

It also has some really great I/O's and on-board tools, but I don't wish to dilute the Sony thread too much with this. I happen to own Sony and Canon, but will buy Fisher Price, if they have something better tomorrow.

I hear you LOUD AND CLEAR about the difficulty in fast-shooting-styles arrangements…was here recently and it was brutal. Looking at PMW-300 to solve this need. I got rid of my EX1R when I got the F3, and recalled MANY times why I loved it so. 300 seems to be even better!
 
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Yep. I think both manufacturers (and arri) dont really get my 'sector' which seems to often be a combination of mayhem/actuality/in a hurry 'VIP's - where lens changes and menu buries and '10 seconds' becomes an age mixed with calmer Broll which if you shoot it 'cinematically' earns one big points with the client.

This combinations is problematic if you are limited to a single camera by baggage allowance or ones own physical limitations.

Part of the problem is director/producers are all over the cinematic look in the brief but then direct one at the location as if you were on an EX1 or an ENG camera 'zoom in on those two'

I feel (non menu buried) digital zoom (4k to 2k) would really really help this.

S
 
Sparky874 said:
That's why I think using an F5/ F55 now with an affordable S16mm zoom lens with a range of say 15-100mm -if you arehappy to shoot 2k/ HD - could be a really useful combination, until you can afford a PL mount zoom lens.
Click to expand...

A 15-100mm S16 lens (with center scan active) is going to have the equivalent FoV of only 30mm at the wide end. I think it would be very hard to do a shoot where 30mm was your "wide" angle.

I'm shooting with a Zeiss LWZ 15.5-45mm which I can turn into a 31-90mm when center scan is active -- which is GREAT!!! but you can't do that if your lens is a S16 to begin with.
 
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Thanks Doug, that's very interesting, I never appreciated the FoV equivalent was as much as that - i.e 50% from a S16mm lens on the F5/55.
 
Abel cine fov calculator is useful.

Personally I want a wide end of a zoom to be close to a 24mm on full frame stills camera which is from memory a fov of 76 degrees. Realistically most Zooms that also offer a tight headshot are going to not be that wide.

the option doug has would be awesome.. With a crop button!
 
Hi Clair, I'm glad to see Andy also reported a slight softness in the center-scan mode when doing the test. It's consistent with my own findings.
 
Barons said:
As far as button pushing goes, when a system has as many options and configurations as the 5 and 55, it's impractical to make every function just a button push away.
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+1
I just came back from an what was called an intensive course on the F55/F5 at AbelCine in NYC, The course instructor spent 6 hours reviewing the menu system on those two cameras. With the amount of questions asked and the amount of ground that had to be covered I feel that the course on the F55/5 menu system could have easily been stretched out into a two day course. The fact that there is sometimes a chain that has to be followed to allow a function to work can't be shorthanded to a side button. With those two cameras you need to know the menus system.
 
I don't know what you consider a good price drop on the sony F55, but I have a camera coming in that will sell for approx 30,000 with an R5 and 512 card! Not bad price wise. I have one that I have a buyer who is stalling but it sold for 35,000 and it included the Camera, R5, 512 card, 128gb SxS pro plus x 1, LCD viewfinder, EF lens adaptor and controller from MTF Effect, the Sony shoulder pad and tripod adaptor, the charger, a standard and sliml battery, a custom case, an on camera AC adaptor and the camera only has 30 hours on it. It's worth nearly 50k so 35 is pretty damn good I think... still not 3k (mind you this in in dollars too)

As for the assign buttons - I am guessing that in future firmware you will be able to assign anything you want, including jumping to parts of the menu, or record settings like Xavc 4k on one button, and 2k 240fps on a different, and center scan on another, and even get that fourth button to work too :)
 
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