Budget Light Advice (Beginner short film)

J

jibberjazz

Member
Gonna be starting on my first short film this fall. Will be a narrative suspense film.

Looking for some good budget lights to get started. Should I go LED? Diy?
Any insight, links or product reccs would be helpful...
Low budget
 
One strategy that could be helpful is to go into your locations, pick a few scenes from your script, and see how it comes across on camera without any lighting. Then you can have a sense of what you might need to do with said locations in terms of lighting. I would definitely suggest renting, so if you do the pre-production testing you know which fixtures you need for which day, and you don't have to rent all the fixtures for the entire length of production...to save you money.

Id go with dimable and bi-color LED, simply because they would be faster to work with, allowing you to shoot more in a shorter amount of time. I was able to do a lot in a short film with just a kino celeb LED fixture, and an Arri Skypanel C30 unit. Some pop-up silks, bounces and cine-foil will get you some decent enough lighting, while keeping you mobile and swift. Just make sure you have enough people to help.

There are definitely other approaches, so don't settle for my opinion. But definitely, pre-production is your friend. And good luck on your shoot!
 
jibberjazz said:
Gonna be starting on my first short film this fall. Will be a narrative suspense film.

Looking for some good budget lights to get started. Should I go LED? Diy?
Any insight, links or product reccs would be helpful...
Low budget
Click to expand...


The first thing you need to decide is.... Is this a line item rental on your film budget or is this a direct purchase?

Second thing is... What is my budget for said items?

And when I say items, I mean any needed (Lights, extra lamps, light stands, extension cords, foam core, clamps, C-stands, flags, gels) and the like.
 
Looking to spend around $500 total? Want to pick up something basic and fill in the rest with diy lights etc
Want to buy not rent
 
This is your first short film - the most important thing to take away from this project is experience, not the actual short film.

$500 total gets you work lights, shower curtains and maybe one small Chinese LED panel.

I'd take Rafael's advice and think about shooting everything with natural light using bounce/negative fill - you will still learn a lot about lighting, and this may be easier to shift some focus on sound or another area...
 
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jibberjazz said:
Looking to spend around $500 total? Want to pick up something basic and fill in the rest with diy lights etc
Want to buy not rent
Click to expand...

A couple of questions...... What are your goals in shooting this short? And how many shooting days do you have scheduled?

Also, are your scenes interiors, exteriors, day, night, or?
 
If it were me personally with that budget. I'd go for some of those knock off Arri fresnels on ebay. 650 watt. Assuming all your shooting locations have ample power.
I know LEDs are all the rage these days, especially since many can be battery operated. But lower budget LEDs all seem to be hit or miss. So until better quality name brand units get old enough to pop up on the used market at a lower price or the lower priced units get a lot better, I would personally stick to good old fashioned tungsten fresnels for their color quality and light output. But that's just me.
 
I'd just go down to the DIY store and buy some work lights, and, crucially, work out some sort of system for controlling them with black flags and so on.

It's a little awkward, but the approach has a very high price to performance ratio and putting spare cash into other aspects of the production may help.

P
 
My thoughts.... I see many many people use a short or feature film as an excuse to purchase gear. The truth of the matter is, filmmaking can be a very expensive hobby with a full production kit running into multi- thousands of dollars. Hey if you want to invest that kind of money into a hobby that makes you happy and have fun, then more power to you. But if you are looking for more than having a good time shooting a film, then allow me to suggest another path. The first is what I call the learning journey, where you both "write" and "shoot" within your means. Basic translation. If you can't afford to produce a drama which takes place on a billion dollar ship full of Jamacian beauties serving expensive Champagne, then don't write a story about that. And don't write in locations which you do not have access to. It is pointless to write a story about the worlds fastest swimmer if you don't have access to a swimming pool. If all you have access to are practical lights, then design your scenes around them. This will help train you in learning successful filmmaking. Write and shoot within your means. The second path is what I refer to as the serious pathway. Don't waste your money on purchasing gear. When you are serious about producing a film, you don't go out and buy a bunch of camera gear. Instead, take that given budget and rent the best gear available, and the best crew you can afford. The best actors, the best set design. Purchasing gear contributes absolutely zero to the success of a good film. Contributes zero "unless" you are for example, purchasing gear to aid in learning the craft of filmmaking. There is nothing wrong with purchasing gear, if it A: It is an item which needs to be owned. B: Aids in learning the craft of filmmaking. and C: Which fits your budget. As an example. I think anyone wanting to learn filmmaking should own a camera. That doesn't mean you need to own a Red Weapon and Zeiss primes, or any other expensive camera to start learning how to shoot films. Lets be honest, almost any modern camera is good enough to start learning the basics one needs to acquire.

If it were me shooting your short, knowing what I know today about film production. I would take your $500 lighting budget, and rather than wasting my money on the purchase of a single light and stand, and or work lights. I would instead hire a gaffer with lighting/grip truck for the day and pound out the best short film I could. There are plenty of owner operators out there willing to cut folks a great deal. I have no idea of your location, but as an example.... There are tons of new Red camera owners in LA willing to rent their entire camera kit with all accessories including lighting and grip for $500 a day.

It all comes down to one decision...... Are you wanting to make the best possible short film you can given your budget, or are you wanting to buy lights?

If you are just wanting to purchase lighting gear, I have posting about a first time lighting gear kit many times, so do a search if you have the time. That being said, I think something like the new Came-TV Boltzen series lights look interesting as a first light to add to your kit. I have never been a big Chinese made light fan. But these look really interesting to me for the price. I would also keep an eye open for used lighting gear. It really is a great way to save a fortune on purchasing quality lighting and grip gear. In fact 52 of the 80 lighting instruments I own were purchased used.


All the best!

Dave
 
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I agree with David on this one.
As I said on my previous post, you should look into renting. For $500 you can get a nice weekend rate on one or two flexible fixtures that will go far for you. But also, try to do pre-production tests to see which locations you actually need lights for and which locations you don't. That way you can schedule your shoot so that all your locations that need lights fall within the same day or two, thus, lowering your rental costs. If you play your cards right, you might find that you can knock out all your locations that need lit in one day, in which case, you can hire a gaffer with gear to come and help...as per David's advice. Then you can focus your attention on other things :)
 
I think you both offer great advice. Though I tend to assume that when someone asks a question like this, they aren't yet really to hire a pro to help them out with their little short film. Either they're just not comfortable with the idea or just don't feel like they are up to that level yet. I also assume they ask these questions because it's not just this one film they have in mind, but want to gear up for a series of short films to come, starting with this one. Typically shot with friends or other people they know on a shoestring budget.

I'm assuming this based on my own experience 15+ years ago shooting short films with my friends. I would have felt weird hiring a gaffer for my little indie shorts at the time. It certainly would have been helpful and I would have probably learned a lot from said person and had a better lit film, but psychologically I wasn't ready for that at the time. Plus a lot of these kind of no budget films aren't done in a single day, but over a weekend or series of weekends and are usually copy and credit deals with everyone involved. If there is even an agreement like that in place. Sometimes it's just "hey I have a great idea for a short film, I wrote a script, let's get together and shoot this thing. Ok what do we need?"

I also think it's good to have a basic kit yourself. A lot of the stuff I bought as a shoestring budget filmmaker 15 years ago I still use today. Audio gear, tripods, lights. Some of this stuff holds up for decades if you aren't pounding it in the ground constantly. It's good to have if a buddy calls you up a year later and says "hey I know a guy who needs a video shot, he's willing to pay $500 for a 2-minute talking head piece with some b-roll." If you already have a basic kit and know how to use it, you're good to go.

Plus let's be honest. A lot of these no budget short films don't go anywhere but youtube and are typically just learning experiences. A rare few end up at film festivals. But most usually suck and it's not because they didn't hire a gaffer to help. It's because they also didn't hire a DoP with experience and a director with experience and actors with experience and a screenwriter who knows how to write, etc. etc. No offensive original poster. I think we've all been there. By the time you got to that point this guy isn't coming on DVXuser asking what kind of lights he can buy for $500. Which is why I think my assumptions are pretty safe. Though I have been wrong.
 
Speaking of work lights. It must be 7 years ago. But there was some guy who did some great looking work with them. Wish I could remember his name. Of course work lights are not the best. But like I said this young guy did some amazing looking work with them.
 
I think probably Roxics is right and probably the smartest man who ever lived. OP reminds me of me about 14 years ago.
 
Ronic described the project pretty accurately. A few friends and i are putting this project together after talking about it for a long time. We are just getting our feet wet and are prob not ready to hire a crew just yet.
Also, I am in Eastern, Pa about 2 hours from Philly so i think there is too much distance to rent...unless maybe some deliver?
So i am just looking for a decent starter light set up option.
Also, the first film will be outdoors far from power...so that is why the LED options looked appealing.
We are gonna try to turn some day footage into night footage...but we may have to shoot some stuff at night etc
 
jibberjazz said:
Also, the first film will be outdoors far from power...so that is why the LED options looked appealing.
We are gonna try to turn some day footage into night footage...but we may have to shoot some stuff at night etc
Click to expand...

Which is why as a starter I suggested "writing and shooting within your means".

Why not shoot your first project in a location where you have access to electricity, rather then in the middle of podunk far from power, forcing you to then purchase batteries for any LED light purchases which will power them for the duration of your shoot. Or having to get a generator. Adding to cost of your very limited $500 budget.

Please don't take my suggestions the wrong way. I'm just trying to be helpful after having done this thousands of times before.
 
Roxics nails it. Everybody has a different process of learning. It sound like the OP (from his description) wants to just get his feet wet puttering about finding out what's what with a hands on experience. Totally legitimate.

"Outdoors far from power" - well, the bad news is that you picked what is probably the most difficult challenge for lights and a situation where the budget is about the highest it can be. Because if you are truly using the lights ford daylight outdoors - and especially if it's in a bright outside - you are competing with the biggest source of light out there - the sun. Even if you don't see the sun directly, and it's overcast, it can be bright in a way that your eyes (really: your brain, which compensates like crazy) cannot perceive. To compete against that light, you need about the brightest lights you can manage - which means, bigger cost. Now, you are asking for it to be far from the power grid, so you are looking for battery powered (or power generator) - which by itself immediately dramatically escalates the cost... especially that you are asking for a ton of power, as the brightest lights demand the most power. Let's just agree that this scenario is unrealistic at $500.

So, probably it makes more sense to invest in light control first - and you can go big, like butterflies and so on, but that would again be outside your budget, so maybe just cheap (even DIY) bounces and light blockers and so on. And then get one light to work the shadows - but I cannot overemphasize how frequently folks underestimate how much light you need in daylight, even in so-called shadows - they bring these little lights which don't even register against the background brightness. If you can stretch your budget just a little, you can get something like the Aputure LS C120t which is more like $600. This should be versatile enough to give you a range of options. But really, honestly - given the difficulty level here, you'd need light modifiers, batteries and so on, which will easily push you to over $1K. And if you really want to have a more complete package, you really need to pick up a couple more lights, so that your options can really expand, so, the Aputure LS C120t and a couple of the Aputure C20 (which sound pretty interesting):

https://youtu.be/t8j63rxOXIk

How much would such a package cost - something that can work for you outdoor away from a grid, light modifiers, lights, batteries, stands: it can be done for about $2000. I know, I know - I have not forgotten your $500 budget. I'll just tell you this: sometimes, it makes no sense at all to spend less - you'd be better off not wasting $500, and putting it toward getting the $2000... you're already closer, because now you only need to come up with another $1500 or so. It works the same as folks buying cheap tripods - you first buy a cheapo that doesn't do the job, so you need to buy a more expensive one, only once you start using it you realize that it won't do so you end up buying the more expensive one you should have bought to begin with. Now you have to buy it anyway, and you just wasted a bunch of money on stuff that is not really usable. So, bite the bullet and buy right the first time.

Caveat: technology is evolving very fast in LEDs - brighter, better spectrum, cheaper. The longer you wait, the better the lights will get. But life is short and you can grow old waiting. So here's how you buy: when the lights (or whatever gear) is good enough, for a price you can shell out for. Even a couple of years ago, I would not say LEDs were ready for prime time: either not bright enough, or if bright then not good spectrum, or if both were good, then the price was outta sight. Today, with these lights, we are finally here where it's OK to buy. Sure, better will come along, but it's OK as is to buy now. Even if better comes out next year, you can still use these! Plus, for other things like light modifiers, prices are where they are, and won't get much cheaper or the tech evolve much.

But really, if $2000 is just not doable, then what David says is very true: write for your budget. Maybe drop the idea of shooting outdoors where you need lights - maybe shoot without lights, just with a few modifiers, with natural light. But if you want to use lights, to learn, maybe shoot interiors, where you can have access to the electrical grid, so you can buy cheaper lights and $500 would do it. Write around those conditions.
 
That is a calid approach...writing around what you have available rather than trying to force a grand idea to fit meager resources. On the other hand, having been there, you have the ideas you have and the muse wants what it wants. Day for night is also valid. Pretty sure it's still used even today. Read up on how to do it right.
 
Thanks for all the solid advice. I think i am just gonna shoot mostly during the day and prob rent some basic lights. Can you recc some online places that will ship rental lights?
 
The only thing I'd say about renting is that it only really works when you live vaguely near the facility.

I live on the wrong side of London, and even here, the sheer grief and hassle of dropping off and picking up equipment can add massively to workload. There is no feasible way for most of the world's population to pay a day's rental, pick up in the morning, and return before closing. Our correspondent doesn't say where he is but unless he's in exactly the right part of exactly the right city, renting can become a bind.

It's still a good idea. It's just not as easy as people make out, especially once you take insurance into account.
 
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