Budget Control Surface for Pre-Mixing in 2012?

Q

qwerty123

Well-known member
I'm on the look out for a cost-effective control surface to use with pro tools 10 for at home pre-mixing. I have access to a studio at my college with a much nicer monitor setup and a great control surface. The problem is my time there is limited, so I only will be going in the for the final mix.

So far, there's the behringer cf2000. The only concern I possibly have with it is the loud fader action. Any thoughts / advice? I've searched a bit on the forum and can't quite find an extended discussion of control surfaces. :)
 
Are you talking about the universal pro? That's like almost $1,000. Is there anything in the Behringer range that is worth considering?
 
Checkout used Mackie Control units, they start at around $275 or more used, most fall in the $300 area. Much better than the Behringer unit.

Also checkout the Presonus Faderport and Frontier Design Alphatrack. I've heard good stuff about both, more about the Faderport, and they are very portable and fast when you get used to their workflow.
 
Thanks @Nickpickles! Just one follow-up: I noticed that there is an older version of the Mackie Universal Control that is midi only (not usb). Can these be used with a midi-to-usb adapter? I also have an mbox pro 3, which has midi capability.

The Alphatrack looks great, but it seems real hard to get a hold of one as many (online) stores don't carry it.
 
qwerty123 said:
The Alphatrack looks great, but it seems real hard to get a hold of one as many (online) stores don't carry it.
Click to expand...

That's because it's been discontinued.

The PreSonus Faderport gets good reviews (and is still available)... I wish I'd gotten a Frontier while I still could, as it has a FLIP control, which allows you to flip the fader control to the active plug-in parameter. That's really handy, and I used to use it quite a bit when I was using a Control24. I don't believe the Faderport can do that.

You can also find a good deal on a used Command8 (discontinued). Those were really nice control surfaces.

I did a lot of work on a Mackie HUI, and also found that to be a great control surface, but I do not have experience with the newer Mackie controls.
 
qwerty123 said:
Thanks @Nickpickles! Just one follow-up: I noticed that there is an older version of the Mackie Universal Control that is midi only (not usb). Can these be used with a midi-to-usb adapter? I also have an mbox pro 3, which has midi capability.

The Alphatrack looks great, but it seems real hard to get a hold of one as many (online) stores don't carry it.
Click to expand...

Remember used is always an option and will save you $$$. I buy a lot of items from Guitar Center's used site, used.guitarcenter.com. They ship anywhere in the US and it comes with a warranty for the items. You just have to call the store and do payment over the phone (no online buying from their used site). I also saw some Alphatracks on eBay for around $100.

Yes, you will be able to control it through MIDI. Grab the Mackie Control plugin for Pro Tools and you should be set. Your MBOX 3 Pro has the breakaway cable with MIDI in/out. Connect to in/out on the Mackie Control and you'll be set.
 
Great feedback guys! I'm ditching the idea of getting a Behringer (it seems to be the h4n of control surfaces)....

I'm now eying a Mackie Universal Control (midi) and investigating the digidesign command 8 (seems a little pricier)... the Mackie HUI--is that different that the mackie universal controller?

I'm going to search out there relative advantages vs disadvantages. But I'd also be curious if others can comment on this. I'm mostly going to be using pro tools 10 (for now)--with occassional forays into audacity. But who knows what I'll be doing in the future.
 
qwerty123 said:
Great feedback guys! I'm ditching the idea of getting a Behringer (it seems to be the h4n of control surfaces)....
Click to expand...

Probably just as well... Behringer makes a lot of cheap junk. I've only ever used one item from Behringer that I appreciated, and it was discontinued years ago.

qwerty123 said:
I'm now eying a Mackie Universal Control (midi) and investigating the digidesign command 8 (seems a little pricier)... the Mackie HUI--is that different that the mackie universal controller?
Click to expand...

The HUI was discontinued a long time ago (last time I used one was 2003), so if you find one it will be used. Theoretically, it should work with PT10 or any DAW that supports HUI protocol. However, with your setup you'll only be able to connect via MIDI (with PT|HD it connected via serial port), and I don't know if the metering features will function that way. When connected via serial, it has inputs and outputs so there are audio signals that flow through it and it also functions as a monitor control system. Again, via MIDI, that's not going to happen. So this may not really be a practical option.

Honestly, though... how much do you really need an 8-fader control surface? They're great and all, but examine your workflow, and your expansion plans over the next year, and figure out if a single fader will do you.
 
Hmmm... yeah it's easy to think one **needs** an 8-fader control surface. And I should admit that I like "the cool factor* of having an 8-control fader surface more than I care to admit :p

...More seriously though, I think at this point I'm only automating one track at a time--and I could always group together tracks to be controlled by a single fader right? What advantages does having an 8-fader surface have apart from having to switch tracks less often? (There's also the space factor having a 17" x 17" machine on the desk! --although I could make it work with some creative space saving techniques.)

The HUI is out as is Behringer. People seem to have some issues with the presonus in PT(10).

Considering a used alphatrack or a used Mackie Control Universal (probably could get one for only $150/200-ish more than an alpha track) or maybe a command 8.
 
Last edited:
Alex H. said:
Probably just as well... Behringer makes a lot of cheap junk. I've only ever used one item from Behringer that I appreciated, and it was discontinued years ago.
Click to expand...

In my experience the only "whoa holy crap this doesn't suck" Behringer products were their Truth line of speakers and that one A/D unit they had. I thought both were awesome, especially at the price offered. In fact I have still have a pair of Truth active monitors and love them.

Qwerty: There are advantaged to each. If you're running a laptop there's something nice about being able to put the whole studio in a backpack. As someone who lives in a tiny apartment, I have come to appreciate these things.
 
The only reason I was considering the Behringer was that I found someone willing to sell me a barely used one for $140. But the fact that it's loud (especially), doesn't have read-outs of the tracks, has poor transport controls (lacking an independent record button), and is incapable of working with plugins (is the mackie the same?)--all that together kind of made it a deal breaker.

The command 8 is out too as it seems to only be pro tools compatible, and I want the ability to work in other DAW should / when the need arise. It seems like I'm down to the Mackie or the alphatrack or faderport!

I guess one other advantage of an 8 fader control surface is that you simultaneously cross-fade two or more tracks at time. If the Mackie works with Plug-ins that too is an advantage / time-saver. I also think there may less mouse-clicking involved with an 8-fader control surface to get a fader on a desired track. It also seems like something that will last me a while if I get one in good condition, whereas I might outgrow the single faders soon.

For a $100 the alphatrack or faderport is tempting though, especially since because of the portability factor (I've got a laptop as well as a desktop). There are other things my $ would go to that would improve my mixing apart from a control surface--and especially because I currently have very limited access to a very good control surface in the school's studio! Sorry, thinking out loud here! :)

Decisions, decisions! :p
 
I think you're going to find compatibility issues, especially moving forward, with some discontinued items (see: Mackie HUI). I've only seen a couple of mentions regarding challenges with the Faderport and PT10, but I'd suggest calling Sweetwater Sound and asking someone there; they're really up-front about things like that, and they'll be able to tell you what issues there may or may not be or how to correct them.

Your point about cross-fading two tracks is valid, but it's not difficult to do in two passes (yes, takes a second pass, but still not difficult). I tend to to several mix passes anyway, starting with dialog and building from there, track-by-track. A single fader is, more often than not, all I'd need.
 
The Behringer unit doesn't say "touch sensitive", that is a BIG deal. You want to make sure that any control surface you get will "release" the fader the minute you touch it. Other wise you have to fight the motor and if you stop moving the fader it will get grabbed back. The "MotorMix" had this issue, the later "MotorMate" is touch sensitive and it makes a world of difference.

I grew up with analog mixers and the idea of not having a lot of faders seemed "wrong" to me. BUT if I were buying today I would probably go with one of the single fader units. In-the-Box mixing is different than live mixing and you really hardly ever need more than one fader. You can group if you need to control more than one and with PT you can have VCA masters that are even better at that task. Plus most of the time your roughing in with the mouse because it's faster, so the fader is for a fine tweak pass or that fade that just won't seem to work. Also you can set PT up so that the fader will follow the highlighted track so you are not constantly having to reassign it to the track you are working on. AND you can pack it up and use it with your laptop if you need to.

If you can get one that also has a shuttle control with it even better!
 
Yeah, the lack of touch sensistivity is another BIG striker against the Behringer.

I think I'm persuaded to get either an Alphatrack or a Faderport. I'm actually leaning a little towards getting a used alphatrack as it just seems to have better functionality (and is usb bus powered, which makes it even more portable than the faderport). I heard some complaints about the fader on the alpha track not being as good, but this seems to be somewhat subjective. And maybe I worry a little about future-proofing with the alphatrack (as Alex suggests)... but it's not like I will loose a ton of money if pro tools 11 or whatever doesn't support it.

....Now to find one--somebody grabbed a good looking unit off of ebay for $99 with free shipping--doh!
 
Last edited:
@nickpickles yeah, i saw that one. But it has weird blemishes on it, and I'm not sure about the life of the thing. I should contact the seller I guess. Seems possibly to get a better price though... I can wait :)
 
Last edited:
It looks like it was just sticky residue from a sticker. Goof Off will probably take it off. Might even talk the guy down a bit?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top