Broken codec concern, maybe me

Soldier said:
So is the consensus that the GH1(3) with its higher bitrate is a more robust implementation of the AVCHD codec and less likely to break up than the lower bitrate GH2 at 24p?
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There is no clear answer that someone else can TELL YOU. It's what works for you. The cameras all have alight variances and people have very different eye;s and tolerances for different sort of artifacts. For me, I think the GH13 is a little more robust but there are some nice things about the GH2 that outshine the GH13.... but not so nice that I have to go running. If you are buying now, might as well get a GH2.. if you have GH13s set right, no need to go running.
 
Blackout said:
There is no clear answer that someone else can TELL YOU. It's what works for you. The cameras all have alight variances and people have very different eye;s and tolerances for different sort of artifacts. For me, I think the GH13 is a little more robust but there are some nice things about the GH2 that outshine the GH13.... but not so nice that I have to go running. If you are buying now, might as well get a GH2.. if you have GH13s set right, no need to go running.
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I never understood how some people though could sell their GH13s without having the GH2 out for a while to see if there are issues. I can see if you are in desperate need for something it offers, but know that there are risks to every new product that comes out. I think the GH2 will be worth it in the end, but no way would I have sold a GH13 before I had one (GH2) in my hands and tested it side by side. I'll almost never preorder something. I would rather let it be out a month or so to see if these kinds of issues come up.
 
GH2 is fine ! just go and make some art with it !
you will manage all those little obstacles if you'll really want to.
 
I just can't believe the current GH2 price. It's been slowly disappointing. The horizontal blue banding issue. No ETC and 720p modes during HDMI out. No audio over HDMI. Unusable HDMI recording. The same old AVCHD codec issue.

Panny, lower the price. GH2 is a camera with some nice video feature. Period. Lower the expectation.
 
I think lowering expectations is fine, but I think perhaps it's stonebat who should consider lowering his expectations?

It's a $899 stills camera that also does the best video on the market. What do you expect? A cinema camera? It isn't one. A video camera? It isn't one. It's a $899 consumer stills/video hybrid. It's great for what it is. I love it. But it's not an AF100, it's not an HMC150, nor does it pretend to be.

Just evaluate it for what it is, not what you wish it was. It's way exceeding my expectations of it -- and I already had a Gh1 so I knew what to expect.
 
1080p24 is nice. HDMI out at 24p is nice. ETC is nice. $899 body only is not expensive if it had worked as advertised. I would have bought it if there were no such dreaded blue banding issue. Also the price has dropped 26% in Japan. Let's see how fast the price drops here.
 
Stonebat's price rants might work with a street vendor - complain about the price, followed by an exaggeration of some fault in the product, then mention it's cheaper down the block, then slam it some more...and on and on and on. This is a common thread in his posts. It's a great tactic on the street, but it isn't going to work with a major corporation and certainly not when expressed on a forum. Give it and us a break.
 
It's worth the price for the ETC mode alone. It will give you lens options that just aren't available in any other camera.
 
plasmasmp said:
It's worth the price for the ETC mode alone. It will give you lens options that just aren't available in any other camera.
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Hell yeah.

What else can you buy for $899? A 60D? Seriously? The GH2 is a screaming value for what it is. It isn't anything more than what it is, but for what it is, it's great.

If it's not for you, fine, go shop for some other product. But the more I play with it the more I like it. It's really quite good.
 
plasmasmp said:
It's worth the price for the ETC mode alone. It will give you lens options that just aren't available in any other camera.
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If you're only interested in the ETC mode and don't need 24p or 60p, the Lumix G2 is another fine option for less than half the price of the GH2. The G2 also has the GH2's touch-focus LCD and is even hackable with most of the same patches that work on the GH1.
 
stonebat said:
Lower the price. Sell a lot more.
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How do you sell "a lot more" than they already are? They're out of stock everywhere and selling every one they can make.

I ask again -- what else would you buy with $899? What comes within a mile, if not ten miles, of the GH2?
 
Car3o said:
yes, the blocks on the wall
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Car3o,

I downloaded your MTS file and took my own screen-grab from Sony Vegas Pro 9, and I think that a good part of your problem is caused by your workflow. Here's a link to my screen-grab of the same frame ( 16 sec, 10 frames ) where the problem you describe looks fairly subtle:

GoogleDocs Link to a 2 MB Uncompressed PNG Screen-Grab


...And here is the same screen-grab after applying the NeatVideo Noise-Reduction Plug-In:

GoogleDocs Link to a 2 MB Uncompressed PNG Screen-Grab with Noise-Reduction
 
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stonebat said:
Panny is not selling GH2 well.
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...How do you know this ? Do you have an inside source at Panasonic ?

Personally, I think it's way too early to tell how well the GH-2 is selling because it hasn't been in the stores very long, and the market is only starting to wake up to it's existance. I have not seen any camera shops here in Toronto advertising the GH-2 so far...
 
Barry_Green said:
How do you sell "a lot more" than they already are? They're out of stock everywhere and selling every one they can make.

I ask again -- what else would you buy with $899? What comes within a mile, if not ten miles, of the GH2?
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:-)
Yeah, you are right here.
But GH2 as well as GH1 are not intended to sell in very high volumes (of course, volume will be high compared to AF100, for example).
GF2 and G2 are mainstream models, and as with G1 and GF1 they'll sell 10-25x times more.
Target market segment for GH2 is very thin.
It is good for Panasonic that Sony, Pentax and Nikon used focus groups approach during their cameras design.
Wise managment in Panasonic do not allow focus groups to touch certain areas. But overall approach is the same - as small liability as possible.
 
Barry_Green said:
I ask again -- what else would you buy with $899? What comes within a mile, if not ten miles, of the GH2?
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Only thing close is the hacked GH1, which has plenty of its own issues when compared to the GH2
Pros:
Best HDMI-out of any video-capable still camera - far exceeds the 7D let alone the 480p Canon cameras
EX mode
Overcrank/undercrank mode
New cinema profile color mode looks great as long as you don't want a highlight shoulder
Audio gain control / on screen monitoring
Usable 3200iso mode

720p has the same amount of detail as Canon DSLR 1080p modes with less artifacts in static scenes. If a 7D/t2i/5d had 1080p 60 right now it would directly compare in sharpness to this new gh2 720p mode. The GH13, while it runs at a higher bitrate, has many more sharpening artifacts in 720p 60

Cons:
Metering manual lenses seems to be off 1.5 stops compared to Panasonic lenses, the GH1 is only about .5 stops low with the same exact lens and lighting
narrow band in underexposure conditions
underexposure detail turns to "mud" in conditions where the codec isn't running at a full 24mbs - This can also happen with the gh13, but FPN is more likely
though minor - smaller battery and lack of ac adapter are dissapointing
 
Barry_Green said:
How do you sell "a lot more" than they already are? They're out of stock everywhere and selling every one they can make.

I ask again -- what else would you buy with $899? What comes within a mile, if not ten miles, of the GH2?
Click to expand...

I have to ask, does anyone actually know how many they are making? It sounds more like a compromised manufacturing process rather than selling them by the boat load. I was at the camera store the other day and asked about the GH2 and they told me they got a shipment a while ago, of something like 5 cameras, and haven't seen any more in months even though people keep asking for them.

So the real question is: is panny's manufacturing dropping the ball (again) or are they creating a shortage so that folks will feel like the cameras are selling more than they are (a very common sales technique) and keeping demand high on purpose?
 
TheDingo said:
Car3o,

I downloaded your MTS file and took my own screen-grab from Sony Vegas Pro 9, and I think that a good part of your problem is caused by your workflow. Here's a link to my screen-grab of the same frame ( 16 sec, 10 frames ) where the problem you describe looks fairly subtle:

GoogleDocs Link to a 2 MB Uncompressed PNG Screen-Grab


...And here is the same screen-grab after applying the NeatVideo Noise-Reduction Plug-In:

GoogleDocs Link to a 2 MB Uncompressed PNG Screen-Grab with Noise-Reduction
Click to expand...


How? It's straight in the .mts file? I've looked into neat video and may use that if it ever comes down to. Also .png files clean up the artifacts a little more than a .tif file. I'm not sure how you say it's a workflow issue.
 
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