Boycott SmartFlix!

Greggl said:
Once again, I've gotten nothing but originals from them. Gnomon videos mostly.
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They had better *all* be originals, or that place would be (on top of everything else) a pirate shop too. If anyone ever gets anything *but* an original, let us know.

Of course, if you're boycotting them you wouldn't be getting anything from them, so...
 
cecil995 said:
They are sending out dvd-r's to people who rent them......which means they have someone in the back room making illegal copies
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Not necessarily. Many producers are making their original masters on DVD-R, so these guys may be renting out those original DVD-Rs.
 
Well, these guys are certainly scumbags. The question is how to stop them. I'm afraid the only way is through some kind of legal challenge or change in law. I don't know if boycotting is the best strategy: f.ex., that gives them exposure which can potentially grow their business. I never heard of SmartFlix until I read this thread and the appeal to "boycott SmartFlix" - and if I were the kind of person who is selfish and shortsighted (sadly, there are plenty of those), I might now use their services. Of course, I never will, as I despise these kinds of parasites, but the question stands: what's the best way to stop them? Y'know, don't get mad, get even. I'll call my senator's office, but is there something more concrete we can do... I already don't use SmartFlix, so a boycott does nothing for me.
 
How does one plan to deal with the issue of privity of contract? Example, A (you) sell your disk (the content under strict/limited License agreement?) to B. B looks at it, then decides to on sell it to C.

A and B have an agreement (privity of contract), however, A and C don't. To my knowledge, your only course of action would be to sue B for breach of contract/damages that ensue, by the on selling to C and resulting use. I don't know what C's rights/obligations would or would not be. Perhaps labeling the terms of the agreement ('Not for rent, .... etc') on the disk and packaging would be of some help, though not sure on the enforceability aspects applying to 3rd parties (C)? Difficult and costly for a small player to enforce/pursue legal matters. Activation may be one method to regain control (to some extent), however, an impractical method for DVD media.

Not legal advise, just some observations.
 
On their legal page-

Can I copy the video while I'm renting it?

No. When you rent a video, you are renting just the physical video. The copyright owner retains all rights to reproduce, sell and distribute the video, and does not grant anyone else those rights. If you like a video well enough to want to watch it over and over and over, contact us and we'll put you in touch with the relevent vendor so that you can buy your own copy.

Would'nt "The copyright owner retains all rights to reproduce, sell and distribute the video, and does not grant anyone else those rights." also apply to them?
 
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OldCorpse said:
what's the best way to stop them? Y'know, don't get mad, get even. I'll call my senator's office, but is there something more concrete we can do... I already don't use SmartFlix, so a boycott does nothing for me.
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Three words for all who are being duped by these dirtbags-Class Action Suit
 
What if we just start building in an express license agreement within all of our end-product? Perhaps it would be a companion policy card [to the FBI piracy label] at the top of the material and on the box?

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I am glad to see this thread come up here. Smartflix has several of my titles for rent on their site. I see the owner of the site as an agent of Satan.
 
Not a bad idea Overland. I wonder how it would hold up in court. By buying this, you are saying that you agree, etc, etc.

But, if it is counter to whatever the actual copyright laws state, I doubt it would take precedent. Interesting, though.

Jason
 
overlandfilms said:
What if we just start building in an express license agreement within all of our end-product? Perhaps it would be a companion policy card [to the FBI piracy label] at the top of the material and on the box?
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That's part of what I had in mind. Though a bit more restrictive than I plan to license my work, it is certainly clear and to the point.

Personally, I think that any material protected under copyright should have a summary of the end-user's rights and restrictions attached, as well as information on where a full licesne agreement can be found. That way if the product somehow gets seperated from its documentation, the end-user still knows what their rights are.
 
There should certainly be access to the full language of the agreement, but embedding it within the material itself [effectively] makes it an "express" agreement with your end-user.

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JR,

Software is also protected under the various and sundry copyright laws, but it doesn't stop the manufacturers from locking every aspect of their product down through the EULAs.

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overlandfilms said:
What if we just start building in an express license agreement within all of our end-product? Perhaps it would be a companion policy card [to the FBI piracy label] at the top of the material and on the box?
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Sounds good. Even some theatrical DVDs have similar caveats on them.

Can a step further work? Words to the effect that, since the DVD is only licensed for sale, any "rental" constitutes a "sale", and the person holding the DVD can keep it...tough noogies to the rental house.
 
I just want to do something, I dont want this thread to start out hot, and then shut down because nobody has the energy to take an action, or similar. Keep up the heat!
 
I like that, but I don't think we could make it stick.

I wonder if we could get someone like Digital Cinema Society and the new Producer's Guild to lobby behind this or something like it? It would take a consortium to get the industry-wide traction you need to make it enforceable.

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First, let me say I too am on the list of rented intellectual property. I have done a lot of research since discovering my items on the various sites.
This is the beginning of what is to come so, we must think smarter and in accordance with the law. There are some things we can do to keep our works from being rented or leased in the future.
It is true....software and music recordings are NOT legal to rent or lease...movies are.

What SmartFlix is doing, in the context of renting DVD-movies, is certainly legal as outlined in the 'First Sale Doctrine' — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine.

What they "may be" doing that could be ILLEGAL, is renting DVDs that contain software--such as any 'bonus material' including brushes, plug-ins, etc. This is something that would be left to the attorney's to determine on an individual basis I suppose.

The most recent changes to the First Sale Doctrine were The Record Rental Amendment of 1984 and the Computer Software Rental Amendments Act of 1990—both amended Section 109 to prevent all owners of software copies or phonorecords (music recordings)—except non-profit educational institutions or non-profit libraries—to rent, lease, or lend said copies unless authorized by the owners of the copyright.

However, the rental license requirement does not apply to "a computer program which is embodied in a machine or product and which cannot be copied during the ordinary operation or use of the machine or product" -- in other words media containing instructional video, data files etc. have no protection against being rented out by the legitimate owner of a legal copy.

The question is, how can we exempt our products from the First Sale Doctrine so they can't be rented or leased? By using the exclusions within the Rental Amendments above, the following methods could be implemented:

1. Create menu driven software applications that require the contents to be installed on a computer rather than being viewed directly from the DVD. By this means, it becomes software and must be copied to the machine and is no longer considered "a computer program which is embodied in a machine or product and which cannot be copied during the ordinary operation..."

2. Require a registration key or serial number be entered during installation of the software. It is illegal to provide registration keys and serial numbers.

3. Develop a user agreement where the point-of-purchase takes place. For instance, if purchasing from the website, the purchaser must agree/disagree to the terms of the sale. The agreement would include a clause stating that it is not permissible to rent or loan the content.

4. Include the Agreement in the packaging of the DVD and also require the user to agree to the user terms when installing the software.

I am certainly no attorney, but these are a few of the things I am doing to safeguard my current inventory and future releases. A substantial portion of my business is DVD tutorial sales so this is an important move on my part.

Doesn't anyone here have an intellectual property attorney to ask?

Hope that helps!
 
Smartflix's next step is to become a private 'library' group... thus they would
charge a membership free and send x mount of discs to you for 'free' per
month. That'd skirt a half dozen things that have been put forward.

Also, some of those protections would actually knock materials out of the
'libraries' of some production programs and 'for profit' schools.
 
cwebster said:
... the following methods could be implemented...
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Based on what you stated and quoted, one could therefore also include a piece of music; i.e. every DVD that one makes should also contain a song/piece of music that one creates oneself. Since music can't be rented out, it would solve the problem of having the whole DVD rented out.
 
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