AQUARIUSDUDE
Active member
Does anybody happen to know anything good or bad about this camera. Happen to have seen footage from it? Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
BOLEX H-16
- Thread starter AQUARIUSDUDE
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Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: BOLEX H-16
Bolexes are pretty good little 16mm cameras, and just about all 16mm cameras are capable of producing superb footage depending on what lens you're using. 16mm cameras are little more than a "hole" with a moving shutter, all the "magic" is done by the lens.
Bolexes are very noisy, usually spring-wound, and completely unsuitable for shooting scenes with dialogue in them. But they're probably the cream of the spring-wound crop.
Bolexes are pretty good little 16mm cameras, and just about all 16mm cameras are capable of producing superb footage depending on what lens you're using. 16mm cameras are little more than a "hole" with a moving shutter, all the "magic" is done by the lens.
Bolexes are very noisy, usually spring-wound, and completely unsuitable for shooting scenes with dialogue in them. But they're probably the cream of the spring-wound crop.
J_Barnes
Veteran
Re: BOLEX H-16
One of the biggest, and conversely smallest, differences between cheaper and more expensive film cameras is the actual film movement. A lot of cheaper film cameras have iffy registration and can result in some seriously bad gate weave.
Isn't there a bolex that can be fitted with a crystal motor? I thought I remember reading that there was a model that had a motor attachment option.
One of the biggest, and conversely smallest, differences between cheaper and more expensive film cameras is the actual film movement. A lot of cheaper film cameras have iffy registration and can result in some seriously bad gate weave.
Isn't there a bolex that can be fitted with a crystal motor? I thought I remember reading that there was a model that had a motor attachment option.
GenJerDan
Veteran
Re: BOLEX H-16
[quote author=J_Barnes link=board=Offtopic;num=1098214717;start=0#3 date=10/20/04 at 05:16:30]Isn't there a bolex that can be fitted with a crystal motor? I thought I remember reading that there was a model that had a motor attachment option.[/quote]
The H16S perhaps?
I stopped looking at Bolexes once I figured out I should get an Arri instead.
Dan
[quote author=J_Barnes link=board=Offtopic;num=1098214717;start=0#3 date=10/20/04 at 05:16:30]Isn't there a bolex that can be fitted with a crystal motor? I thought I remember reading that there was a model that had a motor attachment option.[/quote]
The H16S perhaps?
I stopped looking at Bolexes once I figured out I should get an Arri instead.
Dan
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: BOLEX H-16
Yes, registration can be an issue, of course. My Beaulieus always had iffy registration, but the CP has been rock solid.
Yes there were add-on motors for later versions of the Bolex. Still very noisy though, no way to get a quiet one.
The Arri SR series are great, but I'm not a fan of the 16S or 16SB, I'd rather use a CP instead for the price.
Yes, registration can be an issue, of course. My Beaulieus always had iffy registration, but the CP has been rock solid.
Yes there were add-on motors for later versions of the Bolex. Still very noisy though, no way to get a quiet one.
The Arri SR series are great, but I'm not a fan of the 16S or 16SB, I'd rather use a CP instead for the price.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: BOLEX H-16
The CP has the "rubber band", the Eclair has all-inclusive magazines.
I encountered the dreaded CP Squeak once, when I first got my camera, and it was a hateful experience until I realized what it was: I hadn't loaded the core onto the core adapter properly. The squeak doesn't actually come from the pulley. It came from the film sliding back and forth on the core because the core wasn't "snapped in" all the way onto the core adapter.
So it wasn't the CP's fault. Since figuring that out, all my CP's over the years have been pristinely squeak-free!
The CP has the "rubber band", the Eclair has all-inclusive magazines.
I encountered the dreaded CP Squeak once, when I first got my camera, and it was a hateful experience until I realized what it was: I hadn't loaded the core onto the core adapter properly. The squeak doesn't actually come from the pulley. It came from the film sliding back and forth on the core because the core wasn't "snapped in" all the way onto the core adapter.
So it wasn't the CP's fault. Since figuring that out, all my CP's over the years have been pristinely squeak-free!
J_Barnes
Veteran
Re: BOLEX H-16
In this case, this was an incident of condensation, not a core issue. Of course, I wasn't on the camera staff on this particular shoot, so I cannot vouch for how the mag was loaded.
It was an all-night shoot in the heart of the ghetto with snow and ice on the ground and the air temperature was about 25 degrees F. After three or four successful camera setups, an oscillating squeak appeared in the CP16. As we were shooting sync sound, this was an issue. The hapless camera crew diagnosed the squeak as coming from the rubber band on the plastic pulley…with the condensation in the air, the rubber on plastic contact was producing a grating sound.
I sat quietly in the back with my lighting crew as they stumbled about themselves trying to figure out how to silence the camera. When one of them ran back from his van with a jar of petroleum jelly, I forced myself to step in.
I suggested a light dusting of talc instead of using lubrication. A minute later the camera was quiet and stayed quiet for the rest of the night, but I couldn’t help think what other problems would arise from the CP16 pulley solution.
What happens when the rubber inevitably stretches (as all stressed vinyl/plastic/rubber construction does)?
In this case, this was an incident of condensation, not a core issue. Of course, I wasn't on the camera staff on this particular shoot, so I cannot vouch for how the mag was loaded.
It was an all-night shoot in the heart of the ghetto with snow and ice on the ground and the air temperature was about 25 degrees F. After three or four successful camera setups, an oscillating squeak appeared in the CP16. As we were shooting sync sound, this was an issue. The hapless camera crew diagnosed the squeak as coming from the rubber band on the plastic pulley…with the condensation in the air, the rubber on plastic contact was producing a grating sound.
I sat quietly in the back with my lighting crew as they stumbled about themselves trying to figure out how to silence the camera. When one of them ran back from his van with a jar of petroleum jelly, I forced myself to step in.
I suggested a light dusting of talc instead of using lubrication. A minute later the camera was quiet and stayed quiet for the rest of the night, but I couldn’t help think what other problems would arise from the CP16 pulley solution.
What happens when the rubber inevitably stretches (as all stressed vinyl/plastic/rubber construction does)?
Re: BOLEX H-16
Brian,
Actually, the old Bolex had a "registrator claw" pulldown to assure stability at time of exposure. Blowups to 35mm look great with their Switar prime lenses. Shots with the spring windup motor are limited to under 30 seconds. These are rugged, almost bulletproof cameras. Nowadays they can be particularly usefull in timelapse work, as they have a single frame mode and can be fitted with an intervalometer.
But, as has been mentioned, they're strictly for MOS use.
Hope this helps.
Ken
Brian,
Actually, the old Bolex had a "registrator claw" pulldown to assure stability at time of exposure. Blowups to 35mm look great with their Switar prime lenses. Shots with the spring windup motor are limited to under 30 seconds. These are rugged, almost bulletproof cameras. Nowadays they can be particularly usefull in timelapse work, as they have a single frame mode and can be fitted with an intervalometer.
But, as has been mentioned, they're strictly for MOS use.
Hope this helps.
Ken
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: BOLEX H-16
[quote author=J_Barnes link=board=Offtopic;num=1098214717;start=0#8 date=10/21/04 at 05:01:37]What happens when the rubber inevitably stretches (as all stressed vinyl/plastic/rubber construction does)?
[/quote]
Interesting. As far as stretching, most CP's are around 30 years old now, and I've had maybe six in my day, can't say I've had a loose belt yet. Seems like it must happen, but I haven't encountered one. I keep my camera stored with the belt loose, so it's not constantly in tension, but even cameras I've gotten off ebay have tight belts. Can't explain why it's not a problem, but it doesn't appear to be...
[quote author=J_Barnes link=board=Offtopic;num=1098214717;start=0#8 date=10/21/04 at 05:01:37]What happens when the rubber inevitably stretches (as all stressed vinyl/plastic/rubber construction does)?
[/quote]
Interesting. As far as stretching, most CP's are around 30 years old now, and I've had maybe six in my day, can't say I've had a loose belt yet. Seems like it must happen, but I haven't encountered one. I keep my camera stored with the belt loose, so it's not constantly in tension, but even cameras I've gotten off ebay have tight belts. Can't explain why it's not a problem, but it doesn't appear to be...
J_Barnes
Veteran
Re: BOLEX H-16
So, the belt tensioning doesn't have any effect on the frame rate or motion? I don't know why I assumed it did.
The one thing I've heard constantly about CP16s is that they used them in wars for a reason...because they could usually take a swamp, a rainfall, a crash or a bullet and still continue to operate most of the time. There is something to be said for that.
So, the belt tensioning doesn't have any effect on the frame rate or motion? I don't know why I assumed it did.
The one thing I've heard constantly about CP16s is that they used them in wars for a reason...because they could usually take a swamp, a rainfall, a crash or a bullet and still continue to operate most of the time. There is something to be said for that.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: BOLEX H-16
CP's were primarily marketed as news cameras and are fairly indestructible. I would think if you were in a war zone and had to use it as a weapon, you could bash someone over the skull with it, and film it at the same time, and it'd never skip a beat.
No, the pulley has nothing to do with anything other than the takeup spool. The inner guts of the CP are basically the same as an Auricon, so it's rock-solid and reliable inside. The pulley just turns the takeup spool, but the motion and registration and frame rate and all are handled by the inner guts, nothing to do with the rubber pulley.
CP's were primarily marketed as news cameras and are fairly indestructible. I would think if you were in a war zone and had to use it as a weapon, you could bash someone over the skull with it, and film it at the same time, and it'd never skip a beat.
No, the pulley has nothing to do with anything other than the takeup spool. The inner guts of the CP are basically the same as an Auricon, so it's rock-solid and reliable inside. The pulley just turns the takeup spool, but the motion and registration and frame rate and all are handled by the inner guts, nothing to do with the rubber pulley.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: BOLEX H-16
[quote author=kplo link=board=Offtopic;num=1098214717;start=0#9 date=10/21/04 at 09:15:16]Brian,
Actually, the old Bolex had a "registrator claw" pulldown to assure stability at time of exposure. Blowups to 35mm look great with their Switar prime lenses. Shots with the spring windup motor are limited to under 30 seconds. These are rugged, almost bulletproof cameras. Nowadays they can be particularly usefull in timelapse work, as they have a single frame mode and can be fitted with an intervalometer.
But, as has been mentioned, they're strictly for MOS use.
Hope this helps.
Ken[/quote]
Everything Ken said is completely accurate, except that there are earlier Bolexes that didn't have the registrator claw. Only the very earliest ones didn't have it, the change was made fairly early on, but I can't remember the serial number where they made the change. Hold on, let me check Clive Tobin's site:
Okay, found it. Look for serial number 100,401 and above, and you'll have the excellent registration. And as Ken said, the Switar lenses are great.
[quote author=kplo link=board=Offtopic;num=1098214717;start=0#9 date=10/21/04 at 09:15:16]Brian,
Actually, the old Bolex had a "registrator claw" pulldown to assure stability at time of exposure. Blowups to 35mm look great with their Switar prime lenses. Shots with the spring windup motor are limited to under 30 seconds. These are rugged, almost bulletproof cameras. Nowadays they can be particularly usefull in timelapse work, as they have a single frame mode and can be fitted with an intervalometer.
But, as has been mentioned, they're strictly for MOS use.
Hope this helps.
Ken[/quote]
Everything Ken said is completely accurate, except that there are earlier Bolexes that didn't have the registrator claw. Only the very earliest ones didn't have it, the change was made fairly early on, but I can't remember the serial number where they made the change. Hold on, let me check Clive Tobin's site:
Okay, found it. Look for serial number 100,401 and above, and you'll have the excellent registration. And as Ken said, the Switar lenses are great.
AQUARIUSDUDE
Active member
Re: BOLEX H-16
Thanks guys!
Thanks guys!
Re: BOLEX H-16
Barry,
I still have one of the original CP-16 "tool kits" given away by Cinema Products at a demo in the West LA factory in the early '70's. I always liked the fact that you could "fix" or adjust things internally with that camera...overseas news guys loved it.
Ken
Barry,
I still have one of the original CP-16 "tool kits" given away by Cinema Products at a demo in the West LA factory in the early '70's. I always liked the fact that you could "fix" or adjust things internally with that camera...overseas news guys loved it.
Ken
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: BOLEX H-16
I'm about as mechanically inclined as Mrs. Douglas on Green Acres, but I've gotten in there and changed clutch belts and all sorts of stuff. Indestructible, easily serviceable, quiet, and cheap -- the CP's are just about the ultimate indie filmmaker camera!
I'm about as mechanically inclined as Mrs. Douglas on Green Acres, but I've gotten in there and changed clutch belts and all sorts of stuff. Indestructible, easily serviceable, quiet, and cheap -- the CP's are just about the ultimate indie filmmaker camera!