I'd prefer to see something more interesting shot on a lesser camera. I mean it looked good, but you know it looked like a youtube video.
Bolex D16: RAW, 16/Super 16 sensor size, costs less than MkIII
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I'd prefer to see something more interesting shot on a lesser camera. I mean it looked good, but you know it looked like a youtube video.
The differences between the CMOS samples and the two CCD cameras are pretty obvious in the way texture and fine detail are rendered, even in a Youtube video.
Different aesthetic choices.
I agree. If there is any difference I see when I compare the two most similiar cams the BMCC/Ikonoshop is the color science once you begin grading or apply a lut. I have the BMCC and played with plenty of A-cam files and that seems to be the biggest difference between them.
pulpfiction007
Veteran
Yeah, that was Gary's point...people like to say they can tell the difference between all these different formats/sensors/codecs/bit rates when in all reality - most can't. After processing, grading, lighting, etc etc. It's understandable to want the most latitude, deepest color and highest quality codec one can afford...but in the end it will not determine how people view 2 well shot projects or 2 poorly shot projects on different formats. Some cameras will just grant more freedom to do certain things than others...that's really it though..when it comes right down to it.
pulpfiction007
Veteran
Most cameras are good enough...lazy would be complaining constantly that they aren't as an excuse to not shoot anything. The absolute most compelling Indie trailer I saw in the last year was shot on a GH2. The camera has flaws, but the director got after it with good lighting/actors/ and storytelling....things far more important than how one sensor sees colors and light vs another.
Wesley Byram
Well-known member
As I see it, there's still a niche left for the D16. On paper, it's a more well-rounded camera than the Blackmagic units that have been announced. It has the global shutter and same (claimed) DR of the BMC4k, but will do overcranked frame-rates for slow motion, albeit at lower resolutions. With the Blackmagics, you'll still need another camera to shoot slo-mo, or try to make due with Twixtor, motion-flow, etc. 4K is nice, but probably overkill for now.
S16 is kind of attractive for a one-man-band, vs S35. It will be easier to get deeper depth-of-field, and thus, maintain focus. The BMC-Pocket is also an S16 camera, but will not be as well suited to action oriented content, due to the rolling-shutter.
So, I, for one, am pulling for Digital Bolex to succeed. Hopefully, they can deliver on what they've promised.
S16 is kind of attractive for a one-man-band, vs S35. It will be easier to get deeper depth-of-field, and thus, maintain focus. The BMC-Pocket is also an S16 camera, but will not be as well suited to action oriented content, due to the rolling-shutter.
So, I, for one, am pulling for Digital Bolex to succeed. Hopefully, they can deliver on what they've promised.
f44876
Active member
Link me! I wanna see that trailer. I love the fact that there's DIYers out there completely killing it with "obsolete" tech.
pulpfiction007
Veteran
http://vimeo.com/gamiorbegoso/httpwwwfacebookcompagesmusgo229913677100591
http://vimeo.com/45596420
First is a trailer, second is actually the first minutes of the film.
http://vimeo.com/45596420
First is a trailer, second is actually the first minutes of the film.
There's so much picture depth and color gamut and crunchiness to the image. So much better than CCD in the texturing.
indiawilds
Veteran
I watched both. After watching the first five minutes (second link), I was kind of stunned by the realistic portrayal and the violence. I forgot about cameras and any technical aspect.
pulpfiction007
Veteran
Yep 
exactly what happens with anything I've seen that was well done. From DVX100 shot indie features right up to 35mm blockbusters. I may notice particular colors or nicely framed beauty shots...but overall, I just get lost in the story.
Of course I'm not suggesting we all don't want the most capable tool within our means, but I am definitely suggesting the following: Whatever camera one an afford, get the most out of it, be creative...use all the things you know to their strengths, and tell the story. Not one viewer outside of tech heads will care if it was CMOS, CCD, Pro Res, Raw, AVCHD, 8 bit, 10 bit, or film. (Once again..not saying those factors don't matter in choosing a camera, but that an awful lot can be achieved with any number of available set ups within many budget tiers)
exactly what happens with anything I've seen that was well done. From DVX100 shot indie features right up to 35mm blockbusters. I may notice particular colors or nicely framed beauty shots...but overall, I just get lost in the story. Of course I'm not suggesting we all don't want the most capable tool within our means, but I am definitely suggesting the following: Whatever camera one an afford, get the most out of it, be creative...use all the things you know to their strengths, and tell the story. Not one viewer outside of tech heads will care if it was CMOS, CCD, Pro Res, Raw, AVCHD, 8 bit, 10 bit, or film. (Once again..not saying those factors don't matter in choosing a camera, but that an awful lot can be achieved with any number of available set ups within many budget tiers)
To me, the point where "most choices" were good enough for whatever no-budgeteers had up their sleeve began with the second generation DSLRs. 7D, Gh2, T3i. If you needed something slightly better you could suck it up and shoot with a heavy RED (MX), and even 35mm Adapters were still enabling filmmakers to forget about the gear and focus on the content.
Today, I can't even think of a camera that I would not use if I did not have a choice, and that goes for an FS100 or AF100 as well... MKII, 7D.. I mean I might pitch a fit but if I HAD to, I'm pretty sure it would be okay in the end.
Cool thing is that we don't HAVE to just choose one camera that offers a the things that we need, there are several options.
Today, I can't even think of a camera that I would not use if I did not have a choice, and that goes for an FS100 or AF100 as well... MKII, 7D.. I mean I might pitch a fit but if I HAD to, I'm pretty sure it would be okay in the end.
Cool thing is that we don't HAVE to just choose one camera that offers a the things that we need, there are several options.
GH2 even hacked is still a 4:2:0 8-bit camera. It does within its limits produce great image quality for the money. But broad color gamut and extended grading range is not a characteristic of the codec. Strictly REC709.
The kind of extreme grade used in the music video where you have very fine value differences within bright highlights would be nearly impossible to achieve starting with an 8 bit codec. Strobes are likewise not easy for a rolling shutter limited camera to deal with.
As Kholi said, all of these cameras in capable hands can produce acceptable results within their limits. The thing is to know the limits and pick the tool best suited for your own work.
You ruined me Kholi, that damn BMCC is the work of the devil. You just can't imagine the difference until you shoot the first frames with it. My 7d sits in a corner crying "Why you do this to me Demi?". I don't disagree with using DSLR's as i've seen tons of great stuff done on them, Rubber looks great on the screen, i'm just glad we have the option to shoot with pro codecs at such a huge cost savings.
Wesley Byram
Well-known member
I know I'm getting off-topic here, but I actually found the way some of the scenes in Rubber were shot to be a little distracting. Not all of them, nor even most scenes necessarily, but sometimes it looked like the cinematographer got overly obsessed with maintaining shallow dof. Several shots were done with a (IMHO) to-high shutter speed (presumably to keep the iris wide open) and looked choppy as a result. Other times, the camera operator seemed to be fighting the shallow dof and had difficulty keeping subjects in focus. Maybe that was a creative decision, but it made it look a little amateurish to me. Of course, that's all IMHO.
Back to the regular discussion.
You trying to pick a fight pal???!!!! You just did it. Nobody disses Rubber...no one!
Actually I didn't notice any of that, i'll have to give it another gander. It seems that most features shot on the 5d are fighting focus issues...
Ryan Patrick O'Hara
Veteran
Any camera that ends the DSLR ridiculousness is a friend of mine.
Wesley Byram
Well-known member
You trying to pick a fight pal???!!!! You just did it. Nobody disses Rubber...no one!
Muhahaha...And next I shall eviscerate Citizen Kane and the Godfather [More maniacal laughter] :2vrolijk_08:
Yeah. That's partly why I'm following the development of this cam and the BMC-Pocket with such interest. Full-frame is probably too much of a good thing for me. S16 seems like a good middle ground between small-chip camcorders and big chip cinema cams. You can still knock the background out of focus enough to get good subject/background separation, but it's not so shallow that you have to stop the lens way down to keep a moving subject in focus. Or, at least that's what I imagine. I have no experience shooting with film or either of these cameras yet....