Bolex D16: RAW, 16/Super 16 sensor size, costs less than MkIII
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i dont think thats off topic ...
your experience with Y2 has great value when we talk about camera development ...
and about DB it is that is style over substance .. they try to make camera looks more cool that usable and that's not what people who has any experience in camera designing do ...
your experience with Y2 has great value when we talk about camera development ...
and about DB it is that is style over substance .. they try to make camera looks more cool that usable and that's not what people who has any experience in camera designing do ...
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Wow, you're right. I had totally read that as a fixed focal length lens the first time. Astounding.
They are way beyond renderings. They are into their 3rd CNC prototype body and waiting on the final prototype circuit boards for assembly and testing.
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
Looking at their "Headquarter" (108 w 13th St, Wilmington, DE, 19801, USA) on Streetview and checking that address in corporationwiki (http://www.corporationwiki.com/Delaware/Wilmington/108-W-13th-St-Wilmington-DE-19801-a836119.aspx) doesn't help to restore faith ether. Neither Rubenstein nor DB are showing up there.
Nothing wrong with owning an other postbox in a Delaware "office" that is actually a small family house, but having this as the official business address on the website, and not even being registered there......
If you look at "Terms of Service" on the Digital Bolex site, it says "The Website is owned and operated by Bolex and Cinemeridian inc."
Cinemeridian seems to be a doughtier company of ienso.
I wonder if there is a Company called "Digital Bolex" at all, where Rubenstein claims to be CEO.
Don't say they are scam, but I have a bad gut feeling abut this. But maybe I'm just paranoid (bitten badly once) or there are simple and logic reasons for all that.
Edit: Just saw that they removed the Delaware address from "Contact" on the DigitalBolex website (they don't have any address now)
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Ever seen anything like that from any other camera manufacturer prior to release? Sony? Panasonic? BMD? All you ever see is a body prototype under a plastic cage at a trade show. No footage, no 3d engineering drawings, no detailed specs. Joe and Elle had a 3rd generation functional lab prototype and a dummy CNC body prototype at SXSW last March when they started the KS campaign. These guys had already made a movie on an early proof of concept prototype built around an industrial box camera with the same Kodak sensor and rudimentary capture software on a laptop. That film is currently making festival rounds.
Any footage samples from the Y2 or did it ever make it beyond the drawing stage?
The only thing that really matters in the end is how well it works and the image quality it can produce when released. Then there will be something to substantial to evaluate and criticize.
The D16 is a boutique camera for a niche market, no question. It is intended to fill a gaping hole for a moderately priced digital alternative to 16mm/S16mm film, a market segment that is not being addressed or served at all with current offerings. The design brief is to produce a robust camera capable of the highest possible quality uncompressed raw video and on camera audio using readily available off the shelf components. It sacrifices many built in modern video camera operating features and conveniences to achieve this at a modest price. Field production practice with the D16 will be more like shooting film than shooting video. Very much like its namesake predecessor. No WYSIWYG, no auto focus, no auto exposure, no in camera playback, etc.
Continually criticizing the D16 for not being like a current fad conventional camera when it is distinctly an out of the box contrarian concept to start with seems a bit silly and mean spirited to me. Personally I like seeing new and different alternatives to the same old rehashed mass market technologies. The BMCC is an interesting and unique approach too. No prosumer price range camera will ever be the ultimate solution for every film maker. There are too many design compromises inherent in limited budget solutions whether its Canon, Panasonic, BMCC, or Digital Bolex. It is always a case of you pay your money and take your choice.
Digital Bolex will succeed or fail on its own unique terms. Not by slavishly copying what has already been done by others.
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yolk
Member
fair enough. i see your point. but because they are not an established company like sony i hoped to see more after all these months. and only for the reason that i fear they might burn the bridge for other camera projects trying to get funded the same way (i'm not talking about us).
problem is we never saw any footage from DB camera ...people can call it "prototype" but it's just a standard industrial camera
with custom mount (camera is more than sensor )... anybody who had 4000$ dollars could do that ... they dont look like people
who had any knowledge about camera design ...and focus on look and accessories , c'mon ...what we have here is people who think that it would be "cool" to make your own camera without any perspective how difficult it can be ...like kids who try to make space rocket ....
with custom mount (camera is more than sensor )... anybody who had 4000$ dollars could do that ... they dont look like people
who had any knowledge about camera design ...and focus on look and accessories , c'mon ...what we have here is people who think that it would be "cool" to make your own camera without any perspective how difficult it can be ...like kids who try to make space rocket ....
I think you are right. You are just paranoid. Seems like par for the course for any kickstarter, actually more likely than most kickstarters to actually produce something.
yolk
Member
i was one of those kids. i got into a fight with my best friend because when we were drawing the scaled down blueprints of our rocket on squared paper, the pilot cabin was 10 squares high and the rocket fuel compartment was only 1 square high. i yelled at him arguing that it has to have more space for the fuel, at least 3 squares high 
I do not believe it is a scam. But if they didn't do their due diligence to find out what it would actually take to build a camera in this manner, and if the camera never comes out or is not very useable in the form it ultimately does take, the end result is still the same.
Scams have the intent to steal your money and no intent to build anything or produce anything.
I would say that this is a Scam if there was never any intent to build anything, and they thought this was a clever way to steal money from people.
Otherwise, as with any kickstarter there is risk of failure. Failure is not the same as a scam, IMO. And lots of kickstarter projects do fail. I can't find any hard data on a quick google, but a substantial number of kickstarter projects raise funds, but dont' actually achieve their goals. This is especially true with tech projects. People often underestimate the problems they will run into and how much it will cost.
Even "due diligence" won't always save you. Look at Red and their 3k for 3K. I'm sure they did "due diligence" but in the end they couldn't do it.
scam (sk
tr.v. scammed, scam·ming, scams To defraud; swindle.
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We have been around this block before. The Digital Bolex project has much deeper support than the Kickstarter funding. Lenso, Joe Rubenstein, and Bolex International SA are all partners in the project and have invested time and money in it.
An industrial camera like they used for their proof of concept prototype is pretty much just a sensor and basic ADC circuitry in a box with a data bus. They cannot display or capture an image on their own. They are just conveniently packaged hardware that custom machine vision applications are built around. An external computer or custom processor hardware programmed to control the sensor along with software to capture and process the image data have to be externally attached.
Remember Otis Grapsas and the Greek camera project? He will sell you his raw digital cinema camera software solution tweaked for anyone of several industrial camera heads you can choose from for $2500.00. Add a camera head for another $2500 plus a fast laptop with a GigE interface to run the software and you are good to go.
because using word "prototype" is not just semantic ... it means that there is already most of hardware work done and now what is left if tweaking and debugging ... and thats miles away from machine vision camera with custom mount teethed to the laptop with GigE and recorde with standard software ...thats my problem when people comment DB test video ...
A machine vision camera is as good a starting point for prototype development with off the shelf hardware as any. Is it a finished production prototype? No. I agree you can't really judge what the finished product is going to perform like from the development prototype footage we have seen so far.
These recent samples from Ikonoskop give a much better idea of what one might expect from the Kodak sensor.
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Just so you know in the US it is verrrry common for companies to register their HQ in Delaware for various financial and tax benefits that are associated with being in that state. This is a popular practice in our country and should not be cause for alarm or suspicion.
@Razz16mm
i really like image that kodak sensor produce ...looks more organic than any other camera ...but lets compare things BMD make their prototype 6-7 month ago and its only ready for shipment now... many of camera parts are used and tested in their other products ...BD still didnt make real prototype with their own components ...it would be miracle if they ship in november ...and don't forget we are comparing establish company vs start up....
i really like image that kodak sensor produce ...looks more organic than any other camera ...but lets compare things BMD make their prototype 6-7 month ago and its only ready for shipment now... many of camera parts are used and tested in their other products ...BD still didnt make real prototype with their own components ...it would be miracle if they ship in november ...and don't forget we are comparing establish company vs start up....