Bolex D16: RAW, 16/Super 16 sensor size, costs less than MkIII

ha ...you guys are funny . I was a research eng for 10 years at a major university and retired at 37 on my patent royalties and wouldn't think two seconds about designing and building my own camera. Nope ...not enough days in the year. Jeez....I thought we came here to make images, not cameras ! Believe me...if it was that easy , RED would've done it already . And yeh the nex5n sensor is great . But that makes me want to buy a nex5n not design a new camera . We'd get alot further communicating with sony what we need . And who knows....they're due to announce a new nex video camera next month . Sorry for peeing in the soup but....k
 
kurth said:
ha ...you guys are funny . I was a research eng for 10 years at a major university and retired at 37 on my patent royalties and wouldn't think two seconds about designing and building my own camera. Nope ...not enough days in the year. Jeez....I thought we came here to make images, not cameras ! Believe me...if it was that easy , RED would've done it already . And yeh the nex5n sensor is great . But that makes me want to buy a nex5n not design a new camera . We'd get alot further communicating with sony what we need . And who knows....they're due to announce a new nex video camera next month . Sorry for peeing in the soup but....k
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Well, again, it depends what you want to accomplish. These guys are keeping it simple, almost as simple as possible. Red was never interested in making something this simple. I believe their difficulty was implementing all the expected bells and whistles demanded by most shooters. This is not that camera. This camera may possibly disappoint anyone who can't shoot as 'a purist', in the sense of letting go of all camera functions that assist the shooter. No auto anything, no zebras, no waveform, nothing.
 
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kurth said:
.I thought we came here to make images, not cameras ! ...k
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Apparently we are here to get all excited about cameras that don't exist, so we can't possibly go out and shoot with the crappy cameras we already have. Sheesh!

There's always something new on the horizon... I thought everyone had to have Super35... Oh well maybe 16mm would be ok if it is raw, and cheap. Cheap is the main thing as 16mm raw uncompressed is shipping now, but no one seems to want it.

I'd love to see an affordable digital 16mm come to pass as I have the lenses for it and am comfortable shooting it. I've been following the development of this sort of thing since the Kinetta proposed a raid made of ipod drives. Storage costs have made this now almost affordable. If the chinese ever get the kinefinity or whatever it is called done, it looks to be a viable production camera, with cineform available as a lower data rate option, proper monitoring outputs etc.

I just hope all the people that think they have ordered cameras actually get one some time this year. If that happens and they work, I may start to get excited.
 
I'm trying to be as optimistic and sunny as possible, but I'm too old and have seen too much. No question this is a legitimate effort and project with legitimate people. But I can't shake the feeling of "too good to be true" about the whole thing - the optimistic schedule, the lack of complications (when I merely try to build a few shelves for my books, the simplest of simple projects... the project baloons!), everything tied up and neat. This seems to me, like the "early romance stage" where it's all rosy promise untested by cruel reality as yet. You've just met the girl. Everything is roses and peaches.

I'm just crossing my fingers that it's all that. I love a happy ending as much as the next guy. But I can't shake this dreadful feeling that the other shoe is about to drop. Of course, I've been a witness to the whole RED thing from early insane enthusiasm, and while it ended much better than the dire predictions of some, it was quite some adventure and a bit of a slog... not exactly smooth sailing.

Maybe this will be different - after all, I can't offer any solid hard facts for the caution - all I've got is a totally subjective gut feeling, perhaps seasoned by seeing one too many dreams fade. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Nervously.
 
Ks, RAW, Uncompressed, Cost -- better marketing tools than actual IQ now? Might be.

I like some of what I've seen, but not all of it to be honest. It's a cool project, Super 16 is fun, but my GH2 can do a lot of what this thing does and still looks better to my eyes. Rolling Shutter's just one piece of the pie.

I released my pledge If anyone wants to jump on the cam they should.
 
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Kholi said:
Ks, RAW, Uncompressed, Cost -- better marketing tools than actual IQ now? Might be.

I like some of what I've seen, but not all of it to be honest. It's a cool project, Super 16 is fun, but my GH2 can do a lot of what this thing does and still looks better to my eyes. Rolling Shutter's just one piece of the pie.

I released my pledge If anyone wants to jump on the cam they should.
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flip flop

what, getting too old to be one of the cool kids?

Love the idea of RAW for the price but I think it will be a bigger pain in the bum to use than a GH2 or 5D. And I like my VistaVision even if it is a bit soft....makes life easier for my makeup artist. The only shots I want super sharp are big landscape shots and I only have a few of those that I can rent an Alexa for.
 
Okay, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. If you can interpret it, you will know why you can't compare this to RED:

I know an old lady who swallowed a fly,
I don't know why she swallowed the fly,
I guess she'll die.


I know an old lady who swallowed a spider,
That wriggled and jiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly,
I don't know why she swallowed the fly,
I guess she'll die.


I know an old lady who swallowed a bird,
How absurd to swallow a bird!
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
That wriggled and jiggled and tickled inside her,
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly,
I don't know why she swallowed the fly,
I guess she'll die.


I know an old lady who swallowed a cat,
Imagine that, to swallow a cat!
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird,
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
That wriggled and jiggled and tickled inside her,
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly,
I don't know why she swallowed the fly,
I guess she'll die.


I know an old lady who swallowed a dog,
My, what a hog, to swallow a dog!
She swallowed the dog to catch the cat,
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird,
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
That wriggled and jiggled and tickled inside her,
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly,
I don't know why she swallowed the fly,
I guess she'll die.


I know an old lady who swallowed a goat,
Just opened her throat and swallowed a goat!
She swallowed the goat to catch the dog,
She swallowed the dog to catch the cat,
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird,
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
That wriggled and jiggled and tickled inside her,
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly,
I don't know why she swallowed the fly,
I guess she'll die.


I know an old lady who swallowed a cow,
I wonder how she swallowed a cow?!
She swallowed the cow to catch the goat,
She swallowed the goat to catch the dog,
She swallowed the dog to catch the cat,
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird,
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
That wriggled and jiggled and tickled inside her,
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly,
I don't know why she swallowed the fly,
I guess she'll die.


I know an old lady who swallowed a horse,
She's dead, of course!!
 
vladszp said:
what i found about Stylianos Derventzis it looks like he has patents in optics and signal processing .... he is probably head man and that two are front .... cool looking hipsters to make all this sexy ...
because i always got a feeling that they don't know anything about camera tech ...
this gives some merit to a project

http://www.google.com/patents/US6665460
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listening to the PB audio interview, Elle in that interview seems technically confused a bit. i believe PB asked how much record time you would get on a 32 gig card and Elle answered 30-45 minutes then Rob jumped in and noted that you would get 8 minutes. huh?

david
 
combatentropy said:
okay, i'm going to let you in on a little secret. If you can interpret it, you will know why you can't compare this to red:

I know an old lady who swallowed a fly,
i don't know why she swallowed the fly,
i guess she'll die.






I know an old lady who swallowed a spider,
that wriggled and jiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly,
i don't know why she swallowed the fly,
i guess she'll die.


I know an old lady who swallowed a bird,
how absurd to swallow a bird!
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
that wriggled and jiggled and tickled inside her,
she swallowed the spider to catch the fly,
i don't know why she swallowed the fly,
i guess she'll die.


I know an old lady who swallowed a cat,
imagine that, to swallow a cat!
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird,
she swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
that wriggled and jiggled and tickled inside her,
she swallowed the spider to catch the fly,
i don't know why she swallowed the fly,
i guess she'll die.


I know an old lady who swallowed a dog,
my, what a hog, to swallow a dog!
She swallowed the dog to catch the cat,
she swallowed the cat to catch the bird,
she swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
that wriggled and jiggled and tickled inside her,
she swallowed the spider to catch the fly,
i don't know why she swallowed the fly,
i guess she'll die.


I know an old lady who swallowed a goat,
just opened her throat and swallowed a goat!
She swallowed the goat to catch the dog,
she swallowed the dog to catch the cat,
she swallowed the cat to catch the bird,
she swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
that wriggled and jiggled and tickled inside her,
she swallowed the spider to catch the fly,
i don't know why she swallowed the fly,
i guess she'll die.


I know an old lady who swallowed a cow,
i wonder how she swallowed a cow?!
She swallowed the cow to catch the goat,
she swallowed the goat to catch the dog,
she swallowed the dog to catch the cat,
she swallowed the cat to catch the bird,
she swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
that wriggled and jiggled and tickled inside her,
she swallowed the spider to catch the fly,
i don't know why she swallowed the fly,
i guess she'll die.


I know an old lady who swallowed a horse,
she's dead, of course!!
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rofl :cheesy:
 
PappasArts said:
Their demo video's were of the worst quality I've seen in years. Had any of the camera manufactures released that, we would have dragged them by horse & chain to place them under the microscopic guillotine. However to see people ogling over an image that looks worse than what Andromeda could do with a modified DVX100 from tens years ago is simply stupefying.
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I don't know if anyone read the comments on the demo that I saw, but it was stated by the uploader that all but the scenes from the movie itself were shot with a 5D Mark II. The movie itself did have a very film like look to it, but it was also a film designed to look like it was shot in the the 60's, I believe. I think it seems to have big potential, but am going to wait and see.
 
Dolex should be compared to SI-2K and Ikonoskop with roughly same size senzor and resolution.
 
Barry_Green said:
Well, I haven't read his article but I presume he's ranting becaus... it's Bayer and it will have to downsample!

Im afraid that there are some folks who really don't understand what these guys have done. It is a raw sensor dump. That's all. No gamma, no curves, no noise reduction, no processing at all. It is an uncompressed dump of sensor data. A sensor in a box. Extremely easy and cheap to do, empowering for the professional colorist, but also very limiting in many ways. This unit would be a terrible replacement for a video camera, this is a dedicated cine-only unit. It expects YOU to do all the work that it doesn't have the hardware to do. No HDMI? Of course not! It doesn't have the processing hardware to do that. That's kind of the whole point.

I think there are folks here thinking this is an uber wonder am and who are going to be very disappointed. A DSLR doesn't do a tenth what a video cam does, and this won't do a tenth what a DSLR does. Don't expect any zebras or exposure aids or anything, you'll be setting exposure by a light meter. Don't expect a client monitor and all that stuff and no, before anyone asks, you won't be using a Ninja with this. And it won't have ND filters either, I bet. This will be like shooting film on a 1960s 16mm camera. If that doesn't sound like what you want, this isn't for you. If you've never shot film before, you may be shocked at how primitive it is.

And no a CCD isn't a color 4:4:4 device, it is a monochrome thing like a CMOS.
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I've shot 16mm before. May sound anachronistic but I'd rather break out a light meter than fumble through menus. And you should be setting up lights, and not just using practicals so I don't need 64,000 ISO. Some low light capability is good, I don't want to have to use 10k HMIs to get a decent IQ, but I don't mind breaking out the lights. Also not really into the super shallow DoF style where the actors nose is in focus and her ear is out of focus, so won't be missing that capability.

I will miss an internal ND filter. I don't like playing with matte boxes.

Would also like an EF mount.
 
Bolex.jpg

As someone who has shot many many rolls of 16mm film, and still has a real Bolex sitting on his desk, All I can say is I have no interest in purchasing one of these, if they ever do materialize. I have serious doubts!!!
 
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