Bokeh Look
- Thread starter JPUSC
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Gabel
Well-known member
Bokeh has nothing to do with cameras, but lenses only. So what lenses are you using?
Focal lenght affects the look (longer lens, the larger it will be) as does distance, which also requires different depth of field. And aperture of course, here it is almost circualr, with some anomalies, which makes me guess that it is a wide-open lens.
Plus you need to find something to provide that sort of look for bokeh.
Focal lenght affects the look (longer lens, the larger it will be) as does distance, which also requires different depth of field. And aperture of course, here it is almost circualr, with some anomalies, which makes me guess that it is a wide-open lens.
Plus you need to find something to provide that sort of look for bokeh.
Chris Johnston
Veteran
Xmas lights 15 feet behind subject, glass opened up, and zoomed in?
Ryan Patrick O'Hara
Veteran
Good answers. I guess I'm just saying the same things, but....
You want a lens that opens very wide. Something like a T/2, or T/1.4.
You want to get the subject as close to the camera as possible... as close as you can still be satisfied with the composition.
You want as long of a telephoto lens as you can use, to magnify the background.
Lastly, you'll need the appropriate background lights/objects that make those shapes. For instance, if using christmas lights, the large bulbs will look better than the very very small LEDS... etc. Experiment with where to put them for maximum effect. Typically the further away the more out of focus they are, thus bigger bokeh.
You want a lens that opens very wide. Something like a T/2, or T/1.4.
You want to get the subject as close to the camera as possible... as close as you can still be satisfied with the composition.
You want as long of a telephoto lens as you can use, to magnify the background.
Lastly, you'll need the appropriate background lights/objects that make those shapes. For instance, if using christmas lights, the large bulbs will look better than the very very small LEDS... etc. Experiment with where to put them for maximum effect. Typically the further away the more out of focus they are, thus bigger bokeh.
gonzo_entertainment
Veteran
Also, I prefer the aperture closed down a bit so you get the octagonal or pentagonal (depends on the # of aperture blades) shape instead of almost round.
On a Canon, the classic lens for good portrait bokeh is an 85 mm 1.2 In addition to the longish focal length and very fast apreature, it is also a high quality lens, which helps keep down the "aberations" in the out of focus areas (purple fringing, rainbows as the spectrum focuses in different places, etc.)
The newer Canon lenses, like the 40 mm pancake, have more aperature blades that are specifically shaped to give a nicer bokeh. This is from B&H. (Note that 2.8 is not particularly fast, and a 40 mm is not as long as many would like to blur the background. The close focusing is nice):
Which lenses are you using? We can give you specific examples for your lenses.
Michael
The newer Canon lenses, like the 40 mm pancake, have more aperature blades that are specifically shaped to give a nicer bokeh. This is from B&H. (Note that 2.8 is not particularly fast, and a 40 mm is not as long as many would like to blur the background. The close focusing is nice):
Six elements, including one aspherical element, produce consistently high image quality from the center of the frame to the edge. With seven diaphragm blades, the wide f/2.8 aperture, and the ability to focus as close as 11.8 inches, this is a crackerjack lens that also offers superlative bokeh—the out-of-focus background area in an image.
Which lenses are you using? We can give you specific examples for your lenses.
Michael
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Shoot with fastest available telephoto lens at full open aperture. For example, if you have a 100mm with 2.8, and a 24mm 1.4, you will get better bokeh with 100mm at 2.8 than 24mm 1.4. Quality of bokeh depends very much with optical design. Same focal length lens from two manufacturer will have huge difference in bokeh quality.
Yes, if you have 85mm 1.2, then that will give you very nice bokeh. Just remember always set the lens aperture fully open. If necessary use ND filter. I have a tutorial on using Grad ND, which also helps to keep lens aperture open and get nice bokeh
Yes, if you have 85mm 1.2, then that will give you very nice bokeh. Just remember always set the lens aperture fully open. If necessary use ND filter. I have a tutorial on using Grad ND, which also helps to keep lens aperture open and get nice bokeh
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Graduated Neutral-Density Filters : One simple trick I learned 25 years ago when using graduated neutral-density filters to shoot English countryside landscapes with an 8x10 view camera, is to gently apply a strip of black masking tape ( or gaffer tape ) where the bottom of the ND graduation ends ( usually around the middle of the filter ), so that you see a solid black bar across your image area when you are adjusting the graduation line with the horizon. Once you have the solid black bar ( caused by the black tape ) perfectly aligned with the horizon, gently pull off the black tape, and you are ready to shoot. When you check your footage, the ND graduation will always be completely seamless between the sky and the ground, giving you a perfect graduation effect.
NOTE: If you change your lens aperture by more than 1/2 a F-Stop, you have to re-apply the black tape and re-adjust the alignment of your ND graduation filter to maintain perfect alignment with the horizon.
Gabel
Well-known member
Canon lenses in FD mount would work with an adapter without any problems (but not on an EF camera), but EF lenses are controlled electronically and so far, there hasn't been any electronic adapters released for the M4/3 mount (but rumors are that Kipon and Metabones are planning some), so then you would need a Canon camera to set the aperture.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I think the OP should not run around buying expensive glass straight away
Shooting open with a lot of kit style lenses can give a similar look, selection of focal length and camera/subject/lightsource ratios can ahve a large effect
Next I would be stepping towards some cheapo primes like canonFd (or nikon or olympus) as suggested above..
BTW the harsh rimlight on that image is probably not IMO from those background lights..
S
Shooting open with a lot of kit style lenses can give a similar look, selection of focal length and camera/subject/lightsource ratios can ahve a large effect
Next I would be stepping towards some cheapo primes like canonFd (or nikon or olympus) as suggested above..
BTW the harsh rimlight on that image is probably not IMO from those background lights..
S
starcentral
Veteran
You don't need to shoot that wide open or your image will lack clarity in my opinion, you might also want your subject to be sharp and entirely in focus.
A long lens and lots of distance are key here. Try 85mm or 200mm if you have the room. This will let you shoot at f4 and still have nice bokeh in the background.
A long lens and lots of distance are key here. Try 85mm or 200mm if you have the room. This will let you shoot at f4 and still have nice bokeh in the background.
legrevedotcom
Veteran
Gotta throw in some support at Star here... shooting wide open with lenses like Canon Ls aren't great always. They are rarely sharp to the point at 2.8 and the area of sharpness lies in a depth of an inch or so. What might look sharp on the monitor could be slightly off giving you a nice sharp ear, nose or whatever.
gonzo_entertainment
Veteran
Also, I seem to be totally alone in not preferring the round Bokeh you get from wide open. I MUCH prefer the geometric Bokeh of a partially closed down aperture.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I prefer round bokeh myself hence tendency to like 70-200f4 and 24-105!
S
S
I currently have these, which I was planning on using with 35mm adapter with the HPX-170...but decided to try the GH2 after not getting what I expected:
Tamron SP AF, 28 - 75mm 1:2.8 Macro (zoom)
Nikon Series E, 1.8, 50 mm (prime)
Canon FD Zoom Lens 100-300mm 1:5.6 (zoom)
Will any of these work? I know the Canon FD is a slow one...so I'm not sure how it will look.
I see on Amazon that there is a 14-140mm Lens Kit for the GH2. Is that sufficient?
The 14-42mm Lens Kit also seems affordable, so I could either just use those lenses, or buy an additional one if necessary.
Tamron SP AF, 28 - 75mm 1:2.8 Macro (zoom)
Nikon Series E, 1.8, 50 mm (prime)
Canon FD Zoom Lens 100-300mm 1:5.6 (zoom)
Will any of these work? I know the Canon FD is a slow one...so I'm not sure how it will look.
I see on Amazon that there is a 14-140mm Lens Kit for the GH2. Is that sufficient?
The 14-42mm Lens Kit also seems affordable, so I could either just use those lenses, or buy an additional one if necessary.
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I don't think the 14-42 will get you what you want. Easiest thing to do before buying a new lens, is put up some christmas lights and stand a long way back, see if you can get the bokeh effect you want. Try out the lenses you've got first, as one of those should do the trick.
If you're going to buy a lens for this shot, then maybe an 85mm 1.4 ( but stopped down a tad ) might be the ticket.
If you're going to buy a lens for this shot, then maybe an 85mm 1.4 ( but stopped down a tad ) might be the ticket.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Every lens give bokeh - a out of focus point rendered as a shape -so they all 'work'
the size of that bokeh is driven by
focus distance to primary subject (the man), position of secondary subject (the light)
the shape is driven by the shape of the aperture (open - round - or depending on the iris blade pattern)
There is no reason a slow lens will not give you a look
the 50 open will however have far the largest 'circles' if you primary and secondary subjects are close
S
starcentral
Veteran
A couple things;
- 50 wide open will give you circles so big that they will not be circles anymore.
- The "wider" lens you use the MORE lights you will need to fill the FOV. Thus I recommended 85mm or higher.
- Subject focus: I do a lot of photography (and get paid for it) so if you want the entirety of your subject to be RAZOR sharp from shoulder to shoulder, or nose to back of head, you will need to shoot anywhere from f5.6-f11 and use DISTANCE between your subject and background to get the size of the lights you want.
- Lens sweet spot. Shooting wide open or even @ f2.8 on many consumer lenses produce 1.) vignetting and 2.) lens distortion. To see this for yourself on some charts take a look here
Best thing to do yourself is always test, test, test, its the only way you will know for sure. Forums like these are full of opinions and very few people who are actually doing it.
- 50 wide open will give you circles so big that they will not be circles anymore.
- The "wider" lens you use the MORE lights you will need to fill the FOV. Thus I recommended 85mm or higher.
- Subject focus: I do a lot of photography (and get paid for it) so if you want the entirety of your subject to be RAZOR sharp from shoulder to shoulder, or nose to back of head, you will need to shoot anywhere from f5.6-f11 and use DISTANCE between your subject and background to get the size of the lights you want.
- Lens sweet spot. Shooting wide open or even @ f2.8 on many consumer lenses produce 1.) vignetting and 2.) lens distortion. To see this for yourself on some charts take a look here
Best thing to do yourself is always test, test, test, its the only way you will know for sure. Forums like these are full of opinions and very few people who are actually doing it.
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