Bokeh. and DOF..warning...opinion follows!

Chaos123x said:
You guys are all turning into grumpy old men.
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I was born that way.

Would you accept that Hiphop is music but not all music is Hiphop? So: Nothing to be said against bokeh-creaminess and DOF-hash where and when it fits the story. When it becomes an "ism" it starts getting a nuisance. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
Letzring said:
I might have to call BS on this one. Like the joke goes, I don't remember much about the 80s but we were using the term in California and western Canada well before 1997. I bought a Nikkor 105mm F1.8 before 1995 for its "bokeh" or maybe it was spelled boke but we always knew it was a Japanese term.
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You might be right. I remember the word boke or some variation of it being around for a while but it wasn't widely used. But "widely used" is relative and old age could just be playing tricks with my memory. I tried to dig up some old Pop Photo magazines with the lens tests to see what they called it but no luck. Maybe I should go to the library and look up some old photography books.
 
Perhaps not the definitive source on all things, but works for me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokeh
The term comes from the Japanese word boke (暈け or ボケ), which means "blur" or "haze", or boke-aji (ボケ味), the "blur quality". The Japanese term boke is also used in the sense of a mental haze or senility.[SUP][9][/SUP] The term bokashi (暈かし) is related, meaning intentional blurring or gradation.

The English spelling bokeh was popularized in 1997 in Photo Techniques magazine, when Mike Johnston, the editor at the time, commissioned three papers on the topic for the March/April 1997 issue; he altered the spelling to suggest the correct pronunciation to English speakers, saying "it is properly pronounced with bo as in bone and ke as in Kenneth, with equal stress on either syllable".[SUP][4][/SUP] The spellings bokeh and boke have both been in use at least since 1996, when Merklinger had suggested "or Bokeh if you prefer."[SUP][10][/SUP]

The term bokeh has appeared in photography books at least since 1998.[SUP][5][/SUP] It is sometimes pronounced /ˈboʊkə/ (boke-uh).[SUP][2][/SUP]
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The Japanese term boke is also used in the sense of a mental haze or senility.[SUP][9][/SUP] The term bokashi (暈かし) is related, meaning intentional blurring or gradation.
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I can see it after a few beers or wines. I guess that comes under "intentional blurring" as well as "mental haze and senility". Cant remember what happens to my DOF though!
 
This is a great thread, I just stumbled on it... I don't care where the word comes from, I dislike esoteric terms that are intended to exclude the uninitiated (Although I do appreciate the etymology of the term MOS)... But can't you just hear the young ad agency rep smugly using "bokeh" in every third sentence?

I also think the difference between "follow focus" and "rack focus" is significant. I really appreciate an assistant cameraman who can keep an actor in focus through a complicated low lit scene - But I NEVER want to see another rack through flowers to a car's hood.
 
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Mac said:
I don't care where the word comes from, I dislike esoteric terms that are intended to exclude the uninitiated (Although I do appreciate the etymology of the term MOS).
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Since we don't have a native word for it in English, it seems appropriate to adopt the term coined by the people who produce most of the cameras we use to produce the effect. The Japanese have incorporated thousands of English words into their language, so there's no shame in returning the compliment. Spelling it "bokeh" is a choice we get to make as well, since the Japanese language is not defined in English characters and the Japanese aren't picky about how we transliterate it.
 
Shooter said:
I can see it after a few beers or wines. I guess that comes under "intentional blurring" as well as "mental haze and senility". Cant remember what happens to my DOF though!
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Considering the phenomenon of "beer goggles," it does have the general effect of smoothing blemishes and rendering the subject in a more pleasing fashion...
 
Mac said:
This is a great thread, I just stumbled on it... I don't care where the word comes from, I dislike esoteric terms that are intended to exclude the uninitiated (Although I do appreciate the etymology of the term MOS)... But can't you just hear the young ad agency rep smugly using "bokeh" in every third sentence?
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lpowell said:
Since we don't have a native word for it in English, it seems appropriate to adopt the term coined by the people who produce most of the cameras we use to produce the effect. The Japanese have incorporated thousands of English words into their language, so there's no shame in returning the compliment. Spelling it "bokeh" is a choice we get to make as well, since the Japanese language is not defined in English characters and the Japanese aren't picky about how we transliterate it.
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I work for the Branding, Advertising and Music industries and I named my company Bokeh - purely as an abstract word. It always starts a conversation whenever I'm in a meeting as to where I came up with the name and at the end of the day I just liked the sound of it, I'm oriental myself (though not Japanese) and having come from studying Design and Photography at Uni I liked the way that the word is structured (2 syllables, 3 ascenders and 2 round x-height letters) and that there is no english derivative. Words from other cultures and countries have always forced their way into other languages and I love the multi-cultural tapestry that diaspora brings. We use words from the French, Italian, German and Greek language almost everyday.

I worked for 2 huge leading branding agencies for 13 years of my life and had always found myself attracted to obscure company names like Häagen-Dazs and Nike hence how I came to my decision to name my company after an abstract intangible.

There is a huge overkill of sparkly DoF at the moment especially in UK TV advertising and photography but as with most things it's a phase and it'll soon pass. A year ago we couldn't get past motion tracked 3D comp'd with live action footage or Particular Particle effects, the year before that Illustration was huge. Actually come to think of it I believe that we're starting to see a huge amount of work which shows off DR at the moment.

At the end of the day it's a visual trend and to repeat what many many people always state on this forum - it's the quality of story that counts.
 
Oh, no... it's really derived from a popular sushi tuna entree' meaning firm in the middle and soft on the outside with a raw sense of taste.
 
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Ay yi yi folks. Lets not get all ugly American here. Some of us embrace foreign language and its not to be exclusionary. How ironic. The more languages you know, the more people you can communicate with. Bokeh is just a Japanese inspired term to describe a particular optical effect.

Speaking of DOF, some of you newbies are using the term when you actually mean "shallow" depth of field. Depth of field can be deep or shallow. And I have to chime in as an absolute lover of shallow depth of field. I love the swirly bokeh of some of the Russian and German lenses. And especially nisen bokeh which essentially produces hard doubled lines in the soft BG. Its become my trademark style in my circle and all the better if other DPs abandon it. I don't use it all the time. Mostly for narrative. And I'm picky about prospective projects. The more quirky the subject matter, the better my style will fit.
 
This thread tainted movie experience yesterday. I saw Descendants, starring George Clooney, Beau Bridges, and E. Brokeh.
Clooney and Bridges were both upstaged by Excessive Brokeh.
 
Shallow DoF and overly-obvious bokeh indeed seem to be all the rage, and overused ad nauseum in commercial and indie work these days. Similarly, I still see overuse of unnecessary racks, shaky hand-held, uber-contrast, over-under-over-under-crank, and on and on...

WAY too much "style over story" of late.

But I still think shallow DoF and selective focus - just like deep focus - has its place in film grammar and cinematic storytelling. But it should be used sparingly, and where appropriate. Nice to have a large sensor and fast glass, but those should be tools to be pulled out when necessary - not the camera's raison d'être.

But yeah, it's really out of control at the moment.
 
We have in French the expression "flou" and "flou artistique" (artistic blur) too ....it applies too to politicians and their evasive rhetorics ...

Seriously: pro 35MM DOP's SELDOM GO BELOW F 1:5.6 so the blur remains moderate. Full blur seems to be a pathology from the cheap West Coast TV series from the seventies ....
 
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