Boggles the mind

Stealing paintings from a public museum and burning them is truly terrible, but what boggles my mind equally is that these paintings (if on the market) would cost 100 million euros and more. How many people work their entire lives and not even make a fraction of that combined?

Maybe the fact that people steal, burn, and (as has happened many times) throw acid on and stab paintings is just part of the overall insanity of the art market.
 
I laughed - it's just my warped sense of humour - The destruction of these paintings is a terrible thing, to us - but to a peasant Romanian mother who knows nothing of impressionism or any art style for that matter - they mean little - just something that will get her son in trouble.
 
It is always sad when history and art are destroyed. However i understand the mothers actions. As to the value of the paintings.... most are owned by those who have more understanding of spreadsheets than art. How can a paining be worth more money than it would take to house and feed a very large cities homeless?

They are old masters because we are told they are. To he honest there are many (most?) I would not give house room to as I don't like them.

I am sure this incident will cause a lot of discussion amongst those of us with time (and comfort/food/shelter etc) to discuss it.
 
jagraphics said:
It is always sad when history and art are destroyed. However i understand the mothers actions. As to the value of the paintings.... most are owned by those who have more understanding of spreadsheets than art. How can a paining be worth more money than it would take to house and feed a very large cities homeless?

They are old masters because we are told they are. To he honest there are many (most?) I would not give house room to as I don't like them.

I am sure this incident will cause a lot of discussion amongst those of us with time (and comfort/food/shelter etc) to discuss it.
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These are modernist painters, not old masters. In any case I think the "canon" have been formed through a host of historical circumstances and accidents and critical opinions over time, and these can change and have changed. (Melville's Moby Dick did so poorly at first the unsold copies had to be burnt to free up storage space.) To say the masterpieces are so because "we're told so" is too simplistic.

I agree that the contemporary market monetary valuation of Western (and lately Chinese) art is generally revolting and insane, but I'd also try to bracket the cultural/artistic/historical value from the 1%/99% rhetoric. If you care about film, chances are you share some of the aesthetics these modernists helped to develop.
 
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tired said:
I laughed - it's just my warped sense of humour - The destruction of these paintings is a terrible thing, to us - but to a peasant Romanian mother who knows nothing of impressionism or any art style for that matter - they mean little - just something that will get her son in trouble.
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Not knowing anything specific about the burnt paintings, I'm not sure that any of them was irreplaceable, however high its market value. Of course in a sense they were all unique objects, but they're by the usual Big Name artists that all modern art museums believe they need to draw in the crowds, who can then take photos of THEMSELVES with the art and post them on facebook. The MoMA in NYC is pretty much Disneyland.

In the sense the glamor of the art world is something many people (at least many Western non-peasants) want a taste of, the supposed 1% exclusivity is really an illusion. (Although the MoMA does charge a ridiculous $25 or something for admission.)
 
Cryogenic Filmworks said:
Ummm. The artists are DEAD. of course they are irreplaceable.

There is a reason they are big name. Geez......................................
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Yes, they're unique objects, in the same way every handmade artifact is unique, not only because the makers are dead.

I'm saying they're the usual blockbuster artists that museums need to draw tourists, most of whom actually don't have the patience to even look at them. In that limited sense, the burnt works could've been replaced with other works by the same artists (or fakes and reproductions, like many museums in China do).
 
aly324 said:
Yes, they're unique objects, in the same way every handmade artifact is unique, not only because the makers are dead.

I'm saying they're the usual blockbuster artists that museums need to draw tourists, most of whom actually don't have the patience to even look at them. In that limited sense, the burnt works could've been replaced with other works by the same artists (or fakes and reproductions, like many museums in China do).
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What?
 
David W. Jones said:
What?
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I think I may have rubbed some of you in the wrong way, so I'll explain myself once more in good faith:

When I saw that news about the burnt paintings, of course I did think it was sad that some artifacts were lost forever. But part of me also reacted negatively (if you've read the thread) to the fact that these Western modern and contemporary art works are worth more than most people's lifetime salaries. That's how capitalism works, but something is still wrong.

It's not about elite vs popular. The elite side of this is Hollywood celebs showing up at galleries, billionaires hanging paintings in their bedrooms and pinching holes through them (like that Las Vegas magnate did with a cigar) by mistake. The popular side is tourists paying $30 to take photos of themselves with Picasso in MoMa. It's the Art Scene, which is scarcely about art at all.

It's unfortunate these paintings were burnt. But how often do you hear in the news about all the other (in my mind) equally if not more important artifacts of human civilization being destroyed due to sheer neglect or lack of funds? Like the collection of the Baghdad Museum that was dispersed? You don't because they aren't worth $2m. What boggles the mind is that only a tiny sliver of human achievement (bunch of Western artists in Paris and New York and London from 1850-2013) takes up most of the Art pie.

And to be honest, Monet paintings of the misty Charring Cross are pleasing enough, but there are dozens of them (if not hundreds) around the world. Every museum needs a Monet and a Picasso as tokens. Hence "replaceable."
 
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alex whitmer said:
This just sickens me to no end ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23349744
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/0...ccused-stealing-multimillion/?test=latestnews
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It's definitely horrible & unfortunate. At least in the modern era we have photographic copies of works, unlike hundreds of year ago if artworks got destroyed, that was it, no one would ever see it again.

Funny, a bunch of us were talking about this story at a gallery opening last week... The last place I thought I would see a mention of this would be on DVXuser. There is hope after all..HA HA HA... :-D JK..

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PappasArts said:
It's definitely horrible & unfortunate. At least in the modern era we have photographic copies of works, unlike hundreds of year ago
if artworks got destroyed
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Yup, but this is actually happening every day in most parts of the world today. Truly priceless and unique artifacts being lost to looting and neglect. And people cry over their $2m Monets.

Like this ancient Buddhist city that's being turned into a copper mine by a Chinese corporation:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/may/31/mes-aynak-afghanistan-buddhist-treasure
 
aly324 said:
... But part of me also reacted negatively (if you've read the thread) to the fact that these Western modern and contemporary art works are worth more than most people's lifetime salaries. That's how capitalism works, but something is still wrong.
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Most of the things that contribute in a major way to our society cost more than one person would earn in a lifetime. That hospital, bridge, town hall, cathedral, park, etc, all cost millions, but without them our quality of life would be much lower. You may argue that art doesn't have the value of a hospital, but these things are important to our culture and history. Have you been to a good museum lately? Have you been inspired, or were you too busy watching the people there? Art can be inspirational, but also subjective. For you to laugh off the loss of several works of the masters and think that any other painting is just as good, or even a knockoff, is shocking honestly. ...especially on a forum that caters to visual artists.
 
Andrius Simutis said:
Most of the things that contribute in a major way to our society cost more than one person would earn in a lifetime. That hospital, bridge, town hall, cathedral, park, etc, all cost millions, but without them our quality of life would be much lower. You may argue that art doesn't have the value of a hospital, but these things are important to our culture and history. Have you been to a good museum lately? Have you been inspired, or were you too busy watching the people there? Art can be inspirational, but also subjective. For you to laugh off the loss of several works of the masters and think that any other painting is just as good, or even a knockoff, is shocking honestly. ...especially on a forum that caters to visual artists.
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I think we can argue about how valuation happens in society. I can see your point of view, sure. Heck, I've worked for contemporary art galleries and still do some freelance work for them. I am part of the system, but I can also recognize its flaws.

I did not say any other painting is just as good the burnt paintings, nor did I laugh anybody or anything off. Monet painted dozens of misty Charring Crosses over his life time (he painted outdoors and finished one every day). There're literally millions of reproductions and posters of his paintings. His Lotus Pads are in Basel and New York and LACMA and many other places.

The loss of this particular Monet (while lamentable) is given disproportionate attention and value, relative to all the other losses in cultural artifacts that are happening right now outside the glamorous, moneyed Modern and Contemporary art scene. To recognize this is not to laugh it off. In fact it is the latter losses that are ignored.
 
aly324 said:
Stealing paintings from a public museum and burning them is truly terrible, but what boggles my mind equally is that these paintings (if on the market) would cost 100 million euros and more. How many people work their entire lives and not even make a fraction of that combined?
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It's a market place. It's become a financial investment now. Nothing to do with art anymore.
 
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Gord.T said:
It's a market place. It's become a financial investment now. Nothing to do with art anymore.
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The reality is that is has always been a business/Art venture for hundreds of years. Just now, it's on a whole other level of extreme value. Most artists including myself care about art and the traditions we were educated in, however reality is it comes down to compromise between your wants and needs while not creating works that take you out of the realm of your core buyers in the market place. Of course my personal opinion is you paint what you feel you need to do, and if your heart, skill and passion is in it, your audience will find you if you put yourself out there long enough. Of course a little luck also helps too! :)


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