BMXers and Skaters Advice

B

brentwilliamson8

Member
All right this one is a question for all the BMX riders and skateboarders out there. Summer is coming up and I'm gonna try and shoot some videos of my buddies and I tearing it up on the bikes. I come from a filmmaking background so I'm used to doing everything 100% manual. From what I've seen in most riding situations is that the camera operators don't seem to be doing everything manually. Understandable, since there is a lot going on in a small amount of time to capture.

Here's where you come in. Basically, I just wanted to get a feel for how everyone else handles filming BMX and skateboarding. Do you do iris, white balance, focus, etc. all in a manual?? What shutter speeds and frame rates do you guys prefer? Also does anyone know of a good glidecam setup that works good while on a bike or board? I've seen some videos where it's obvious they're using one, and the smoothness looks amazing.

I've filmed BMX a few times over the winter but just wanted to see what everyone else is doing, and hopefully get some new ideas for next time we go ride!!
 
There are guys @ mtv that are shooting this new show with paul rodriguez and some of those dudes are making seriosu money shooting everything automatic. If you needa go full auto shoot 60i because then the autofocus works or works fast, I forgot which one. Yea, in the field like that you gotta have everything manuel because who knows when something insane is gonna get thrown. Nothing would suck more than missing a half cab tail whip down a 10 stair if you are white balancing. But then again, I'm with you on all manuel controls too. It would be hard for me to shoot automatic, it would just feel like I was going back to being a super noob.
 
I'm a skateboard filmer and I use the DVX100b. Check my website and watch my videos on there. I don't use a glidecam when shooting fisheye, it's just keeping it steady. Never use the OIS and have your focus set to manual while shooting fisheye too. I white balance the blue sky in the daytime and white using tungsten lighting for night shots. I will answer any questions you have about filming. There is a contact page on my site to do so.
BobbyLab.com
 
renegadewill said:
There are guys @ mtv that are shooting this new show with paul rodriguez and some of those dudes are making seriosu money shooting everything automatic. If you needa go full auto shoot 60i because then the autofocus works or works fast, I forgot which one. Yea, in the field like that you gotta have everything manuel because who knows when something insane is gonna get thrown. Nothing would suck more than missing a half cab tail whip down a 10 stair if you are white balancing. But then again, I'm with you on all manuel controls too. It would be hard for me to shoot automatic, it would just feel like I was going back to being a super noob.
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Yeah I'm definitely feeling what your saying about the noob thing!! So far I've been controlling white balance and iris manually and trying out the autofocus. I've shot a few things in 30p with autofocus and yeah the delay is pretty bad in autofocus. The whole idea of shooting 60i isn't very pleasing to me however, I just don't like the way it looks as much.
 
BobbyLab said:
I'm a skateboard filmer and I use the DVX100b. Check my website and watch my videos on there. I don't use a glidecam when shooting fisheye, it's just keeping it steady. Never use the OIS and have your focus set to manual while shooting fisheye too. I white balance the blue sky in the daytime and white using tungsten lighting for night shots. I will answer any questions you have about filming. There is a contact page on my site to do so.
BobbyLab.com
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I have the 100b as well so thumbs up! I don't have a fisheye yet but it forces me to take more time for composition which is always good.
 
I shoot 60i and I use manual iris, autofocus, and the WB presets for filming skating and biking. When it is bright outside, I have my shutter at 250 usually and at night, it's at 60.3. I never use OIS when the fisheye is on but when I am just shooting with the normal DVX lens, I put it on... Check out my website: ridethis.tv and all my videos are shot like that on my DVX...
 
I shoot snowboarding which isnt to far off from either of these. I shoot all manual and generally 60i b/c it allows for better easier slow mo stuff...



btnhcleon said:
All my BMX footage is 30p, at 500/1 shutter speed..

http://loe-life.com/DrewHasslhoff.mov

few flaws, but turned out alright.
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verrrrryyyyy nice. love the color correction. One question though, is it really necessary to shoot with a shutter speed that high? ive always been taught that a shutter speed that high can actually give you strobing when you go to slow mo...is this right?? I mean i generally never go above 1/120 and my slow mo's seem fine.
 
I always shoot 30p. usually 1/120 shutter. manual everything, besides focus, but a night i will have a manual focus. if i know i want to slow something down, i will shoot 60i 1/120 shutter. as for follow cams, if you have a fisheye, just get low and point up, dont cut off heads,etc. pretty easy to understand when you do it. just have fun
 
andythefilmer said:
I shoot 60i and I use manual iris, autofocus, and the WB presets for filming skating and biking. ...
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Andy, if my memory serves me correctly, and at this point I'm making no
promises! ;^) using White Balance presets overrides (some/all?) scene file settings.
Anybody back me up on this? Barry?

I don't shoot BMX/skating, but I do shoot some mountain biking, used to shoot NFL sidelines (not with DVX).

I'd go manual everything:
White Balance where you're shooting: in the sun or shade.
Rebalance if you move from one to the other (if you want the best color; if you're heavily grading, maybe it's not as critical)

Manual Iris, especially if your subject is backlit (in the shade with sun behind).
Maybe go Auto Iris if you know the subject will be going from sun to shade or vice versa and you don't think it's reasonable to ride iris.

Manual Focus, mostly- will you be shooting all wide angle or trying to get some CUs?
If so, you may want Auto Focus, or set your focus ahead at a certain mark on the ground.

Hope this helps,
Chuck
 
Check skateperception.com . There's a lot of good info on there. Heres'a link to a thread with some good info. http://forums.skateperception.com/index.php?showtopic=178869

As far as the shutter speed, I copied this from that site. This is from skate filmers.

There is no such thing as the "right" shutter speed to use for day and night. Let's repeat that....

There is no such thing as the "right" shutter speed to use for day and night. One more time?

There is no such thing as the "right" shutter speed to use for day and night.

The "normal" shutter speed is double the frame rate at which you are shooting; so if you are shooting 60i, like a majority of users, the normal shutter speed would be 1/60. Don't be fooled by the 60 in 60i, it's still 30 frames per second, hence the 1/60th.

The "Double your frame rate" rule comes from film cameras. Here's a sweet animated gif to demonstrate how it works.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Movieca...c_animation.gif

As you can see there is a half circle which rotates to cover the film for a brief moment, then it continually spins to expose it and repeat the process over and over. If you're shooting at 30 frames per second, the shutter would need to be exposing the film for 1/60th of a second, then advancing it for another 1/60th of a second.

The "double your frame rate" shutter speed basically provides the most realistic motion blur that you can get. As you go beyond that with video cameras, the individual frames become more apparent and there is a large amount of digital sharpening that becomes apparent in the image.

So, if you like home video looking footage, by all means, crank that shutter speed up. If you want a pleasing image, try to keep it within that range. If you are using this rule, you will never have to worry about remembering some ridiculous misinformation about which shutter to use when.

There are, however, a few times when you might want to change your shutter speed. One being when you're planning on slow motion or when you're planning to use high shutter speeds as an effect. Using high shutter speeds is only effective in use with progressive frame rates and gives you a strobing effect, as popularly seen in films like Saving Private Ryan and other war films, a large portion of dvx skate footage is also shot with high shutter. This is mostly because of inexperience of the filmmaker and not used purposely, but don't be fooled, it can be used creatively. It doesn't always look terrible. You can change the shutter speed as desired here, the higher you go, the more stroby it gets. It's an artistic choice, so go crazy with it. Find what you like.

If you want to slow mo a scene/trick, increase the shutter speed to about 1/120 - 1/250. This is plenty sufficient for slow motion. Now, the thing most people don't do is slow down the footage to the correct percentage; you can't go any slower than 50% or any faster than 50% with 60i. If you use anything other than 50%, you'll start to get jerky motion in your clip due to repeating frames. 50% allows all the motion to match one-for-one. If you start using shutters above 1/250, you'll start to notice weird artifacts and just nasty stuff in general. So, it is advised to keep it below that. When I shot 60i, I kept it at a steady 1/120 and it was fine for any situation.

So, there is no right shutter speed or day or night; it is wise to maintain a constant shutter (double your frame rate, or close to it) and adjust other settings (ND filters, aperture, lighting, etc.) to maintain the exposure you want.
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As you can see that shutter speed works for BMX, what you have to remember is you're not seeing a deck do a flip trick, the movements are generally slow, so you don't see the "strobe effect".. when i shoot skate, its usually 1/250..

Two diff shutters for two diff sports if you will..
 
Moseph said:
some of the clips in there were noticeably sharper than others, was there downrez'd HD footage thrown in there at all? like at 1:16, not only is it sharper but i cant see any motion blur at all.
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nah none of it is hd.but we did shot of two dvx's so it might have had a different sutter
 
Definitley shoot in 60i if you want some nice slo mo. I mix between 60i and 24pA.

Manual controls sometimes, but if its handheld with a fisheye you need auto on.
 
Wow! Those were all really good examples of different ways to film bmx/skateboarding! Thanks guys!! I usually have used 30p when messing around with it and I guess that I just need to plan to switch to 60i in advance to shoot slow motion clips. I'll also usually have the camera stationary since I don't have a fisheye yet, but would love to do some wider tracking shots. Anyone have any suggestions for that kind of stuff?? Thanks for all the good tips and advice!!
 
I try to use manual everything on my DVX whenever I can. Most situations I'm setting up a shot with someone anyway and have time to do so. But if you're shooting a contest or event, you might not have the time to set up your shot before the rider goes for their trick. In those cases I'm more reliant on auto settings.

I will say however, that in some cases if the WB presets look OK I'll use those over a manual WB. Just depends...

Also, if I'm shooting a line in an area where the rider is doing tricks in and out of light and dark areas (shadows from buildings, trees, etc) I will use auto iris.

Bottom line is, there is no set way to shoot anything. With BMX and skateboarding you can find yourself shooting in a wide variety of locations and situations. Sometimes you have time to set up a good shot, sometimes it's run-and-gun. With that said, whether or not you set different settings to auto is a judgement call you need to make depending on the situation you're in.

And as far as stabilizers and shooting rolling lines go... there are numerous ways to do it. I prefer my Glidecam. But it can suck trying to carry it around town. Some people like to roll along on their bike or skateboard, which are more convenient b/c you don't have an extra piece of equipment to lug around. Rollerblades work good too, but again if you're riding around town, it's another thing to lug around.
 
I totally agree with you on everything you just said about judging each situation accordingly bmxbud.. thats pretty much what i have been doing previously and had good results so that just reassures me im doing something right!

Yeah i also think i might look into a glidecam of sorts, idk which one yet though.
 
I would shoot interlaced & with a high shutter, then you can slow great tricks down & speed ramp em and stuff.

On my DVX i have the 1st scene file set with all my settings & 25P on (im in the uk) then on the 2nd scene i have those same scene file settings as the 1st one, but with 25P turned OFF, i call this one my SLO MO setting & if i know i may need to slow stuff down, i just switch it over to my SLO MO setting.
 
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