I agree. Why is this so hard to do?
Perhaps the new zcam will fill this niche. I just trust Blackmagic more as company...
BMD 6K Pocket Cinema Camera
- Thread starter Teddy_Dem
- Start date
I agree. Why is this so hard to do?
Perhaps the new zcam will fill this niche. I just trust Blackmagic more as company...
Teddy_Dem
Well-known member
A Canon RF-mount would have been great on this. It would give the option to use the RF to EF Variable ND adapter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEKtrTnV5vE
RED’s decision to go with the RF-mount for their sensor in a box Komodo 6K was one their best decisions for that upcoming camera.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEKtrTnV5vE
RED’s decision to go with the RF-mount for their sensor in a box Komodo 6K was one their best decisions for that upcoming camera.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
Sensor is larger but it packs more pixels. In the end the pixels are likely the same size meaning the same sensitivity. In this case the larger sensor is there to provide more pixels and that about it.
The 4k version still has a few advantages.
1. Can use a focal reducer gaining a stop of sensitivity with the same FOV and DOF of the 6k version..
2. If one needs to shoot 4k the EF mount will force the use of longer FOV lenses. The M43 mount can use M43 lenses which are made to be wider to make up for the small sensor. It will be much harder to get wide angles with the 6k in 4k crop mode.
3. 4k plus Viltrox focal reducer is a fraction of the cost of the 6k version and if you don't really need 6k provides the same s35mm FOV and DOF for a much lower cost.
4. Like others have mentioned the 4k version with the m43 mount is much more flexible to adapt different lens mounts like PL, Nikon or whatever. While Canon makes some good EF glass most are still still lenses. Most good anamorphic lenses are PL mount and the anamorphic support will be better covered on the 4k version of the camera because of this. In fact is there such a thing as a EF mount anamorphic lens? Thanks to the GH4/GH5 we now have some budget m43 anamorphic options but beyond that they are mostly PL. If one really wants anamorphic the 4k is still the better choice for now.
5. There will now be oodles of used P4k cameras for sale making it a potentially even more affordable option.
6. I have not confirmed this yet but I believe the 4k with a focal reducer may actually be wider than the 6k as well.
NorBro
Major Contributor
This shouldn't come as a surprise but we once again - over and over - learn that people love "inexpensive" cameras with lots of specs.
It will be a good day one day when we have C200s and FS7s and EVA1s available for sub-$3K/$4K...and they are twice as good as they are now.
It will be a good day one day when we have C200s and FS7s and EVA1s available for sub-$3K/$4K...and they are twice as good as they are now.
The Pocket Cinema Camera 4K has a pixel size of 4.63 μm while the Pocket Cinema Camera 6K has a pixel size of 3.76 μm, so the pixels on the 4K model are actually a bit larger.
The 4K model has a horizontal field of view crop factor of about 1.9x relative to a full frame (36 mm wide) sensor, while the 6K model has a 1.56x crop factor. With a .71x focal reducer on the 4K model, you end up with a crop factor of about 1.35x which is actually closer to an APS-H equivalent imager rather than APS-C or Super 35.
This is just considering the horizontal field of view. Keep in mind that when shooting the full sensor width on the 4K model, it is a 17:9 aspect ratio (4096 x 2160) whereas on the 6K model, the full sensor width is 16:9 aspect ratio (6144 x 3456). If shooting 16:9 (3840 x 2160) on the 4K model, the horizontal crop factor becomes 2.02x (or 1.44x with a speed booster). Also note that the 4K model can shoot at 60 fps when reading the full sensor area, whereas the 6K model maxes out at 50 fps when recording at maximum resolution.
G
Guest
Guest
Zcam is exactly the kind of company that can mess up a sensor in a box.
scorsesefan
Veteran
90 percent of my glass is EF, so that would actually be an inducement to buy for me... But I'm personally done with BM. The roll out on the Pocket 4K was such a train wreck it soured me. I feel like we're guinea pigs for BM - testing stuff in the real world that other companies like Sony, Panny, Fuji etc. are QC'ing internally. Yeah, there's always going to be some unforeseen issues with any product once it hits professionals, but I'm really not willing to risk any quirkiness with BM products anymore - especially with paying clients...
G
Guest
Guest
Nikon has the widest lens mount. Seems it would be a good base mount to build from, as it gives more options than Sony or Canon in lenses used.
Then ala Sony Venice, add the option to have a PL or EF mount screwed onto the front over the mirrorless mount.
3rd party manufacturers, could then use the internal z or e mount as an internal filter mount.
Then ala Sony Venice, add the option to have a PL or EF mount screwed onto the front over the mirrorless mount.
3rd party manufacturers, could then use the internal z or e mount as an internal filter mount.
NorBro
Major Contributor
Well, that's of course the trade-off...
You buy an 8-bit 4:2:0 4K/30p FS5 for $3500 ($4800 for II) with quality-control.
or
...you buy a 10-bit/12-bit 4:2:2/4:4:4 4K/60p Pocket for $1300 with no quality-control.
___
As I and others always says, you don't pay for the QC in the latter.
And the "train wreck" was nothing compared to the previous cameras. It was just insanely popular and difficult to find.
filmguy123
Veteran
This is phenomenal for $2500 and we are spoiled for a wealth of options. The last 18 months have been insane for releases.
Not really a criticism as it's a great package, but I am surprised they didn't take a moment to address the screen here and add a tilt mechanism (especially after this was shown viable by that Chinese company(?) where you can send it to them for an aftermarket swap. Seems like a little would go a long way here by making it even slightly articulating. Also surprised if they didn't sweeten the FPS on 4K options, even if not 120, 90fps at 4K would be a high selling point for some.
All in all this is game changing on the level of specs delivered at $2500. I hope Panasonic surprises with a RAW via USB-C and/or ProRes RAW via HDMI to keep pace. Because IMO the S1 and upcoming S1H are still a superior all-around package for actually working in the field with.
Not really a criticism as it's a great package, but I am surprised they didn't take a moment to address the screen here and add a tilt mechanism (especially after this was shown viable by that Chinese company(?) where you can send it to them for an aftermarket swap. Seems like a little would go a long way here by making it even slightly articulating. Also surprised if they didn't sweeten the FPS on 4K options, even if not 120, 90fps at 4K would be a high selling point for some.
All in all this is game changing on the level of specs delivered at $2500. I hope Panasonic surprises with a RAW via USB-C and/or ProRes RAW via HDMI to keep pace. Because IMO the S1 and upcoming S1H are still a superior all-around package for actually working in the field with.
Rockin’ that IBIS, baby!
The positive angle here is that the camera is ready to be shipped by Monday. By Tuesday, there should be several hundred reviews on YouTube.
Side note, anyone follows Scotty Kilmer auto channel on YouTube? He unloaded on the YouTube car reviewers yesterday and his points aren't that removed from the photo-video reviewers either.
indiawilds
Veteran
I have tons of EF glass. This may be the first Blackmagic design camera that will own. Ofcourse after making sure that the camera doesn't display eccentric behaviour. 
Not sure my clients will agree. I think it will come in handy in several situations, for my personal projects.
However let me confess that Canon's DPAF is quickly spoiling us. Nevertheless, this camera should light a fire under competitors. Hoping Canon responds with something.
Not sure my clients will agree. I think it will come in handy in several situations, for my personal projects.However let me confess that Canon's DPAF is quickly spoiling us. Nevertheless, this camera should light a fire under competitors. Hoping Canon responds with something.
electricjib
Active member
I personally think the value for the 6K camera is insane. And the beauty of cameras anymore is all the support from SmallRig and Tilta... etc. You can build these things out however you like anyways. I have my P4K in a cage system running off v-mounts. It's a perfect camera for the outdoor work I do in terms of weight and the longer run times I get vs a RED I used to carry. (the content is high alpine usually skiing and biking)
I don't really see myself jumping to the 6K right out of the gate, mostly because I'm okay with 4K and I don't mind using a Viltrox adapter. I like the FOV I get and the weight of the camera. I think i'll pick up the 6K in a bit though and just keep the 4K as either a backup and or a 2nd camera. I like what Z-Cam and the Komodo look to be in terms of form factor better but I love what I get out of the BMD so far. What I'd be curious about is if they could somehow squeeze 4K 120 out of the 6K version somehow. That would be the gamechanger for me personally. I'm also pretty excited to learn more about the Super 16 mode for the P4K. I think anyone that has a P4K would be well served to just have both cameras.
I don't really see myself jumping to the 6K right out of the gate, mostly because I'm okay with 4K and I don't mind using a Viltrox adapter. I like the FOV I get and the weight of the camera. I think i'll pick up the 6K in a bit though and just keep the 4K as either a backup and or a 2nd camera. I like what Z-Cam and the Komodo look to be in terms of form factor better but I love what I get out of the BMD so far. What I'd be curious about is if they could somehow squeeze 4K 120 out of the 6K version somehow. That would be the gamechanger for me personally. I'm also pretty excited to learn more about the Super 16 mode for the P4K. I think anyone that has a P4K would be well served to just have both cameras.
G
Guest
Guest
Red made the most basic swappable lens mount design. A square, four screws, done. May not be a field friendly as some, but makes 3rd party lens mounts easy. I’ve even made my own MD mount once.
G
Guest
Guest
I may be out of my element in saying the following, as i’ve used BM very little. Most of what i know about the cameras is second hand knowledge.
Mountains seem like an ideal scenario for a Black Magic. There have been reports that in humid hot climates they devlop moisture inside the sensor, and some residue or mold forms.
Also, bm seems more heat susceptible on the noise floor than other “cinema” cameras. One user showed that cooling the sensor improved noise performance dramtically enough. I haven’t noticed that as much on other cameras. Obviously, i have seen it on mirrorless cameras. And the Scarlet MX to a lesser degree, if i was shooting down in the shadows in the heat, i’d make sure to do a black balance.
But in any case, the environment you are in seems like you would be getting the best out of a BM. Vs say, someone living in the everglades if southern Florida.
Perhaps someone has experience that proves otherwise.
scorsesefan
Veteran
Agreed. And I did buy the fs5...BM cameras in general don't fit my shooting style. But having to call 20 camera shops around the country to try to locate a P4K and competing with your fellow obsessive filmmakers to hit the "Buy" button on the lone camera in New York state doesn't exactly warm you to a company...
electricjib
Active member
Yup. Occasionally it will get hot and humid. We were just in Oregon and it was warm but didn't face those issues. Honestly, the image reminds me a bit of the MX sensor minus the noise. Many may disagree, but this was by far my favorite image out of any of the RED sensors. Thankfully the BM is less noisy.
It does well in the cold so far and I run it off V-Mounts and went from using 4-6 in a day on a Raven/Scarlet/Dragon 6K to about 2 on a BMD. My bag is a solid 10-15lbs lighter.