Bluray 4K, sounds great, but why are discs still alive?

Darren Levine

Darren Levine

Veteran
Hadn't noticed till today that bluray graduated to the university of 4K, and discs are now triple layer up to 100gb

but i've wondered for a fairly long time now, how disc media has stayed alive?

I would guess it's sheer familiarity with consumers

but i have to think that companies have at least considered switching to usb sticks as a replacement.

my other guess is that while they probably could manufacture 64gb sticks cheap enough, it would have to be far cheaper than what they currently go for, and doing so would have to drive down the cost of regular usb sticks since people might just buy a movie and reuse the stick.

what are your thoughts, people of the dvx?
 
Generally, what you get on disc is still superior quality to streaming. Also, no worries about connectivity, logjams, data rate suddenly dropping, etc., especially if you're streaming over wifi.

Plus, people like to own things.

As for USB sticks, not sure -- I suppose they could work a way to make it as convenient, with menus, indexing, and the like. If so, it might be palatable.
 
valid, though i was mostly comparing to physical media ie usb sticks. i think streaming is making great advancements, and with h265 and vp9 around the corner, i'd be thrilled if we get the 80/20 rule or better out of it. while streaming might be a long while from visually indistinguishable from physical media, you'd really have to side by side it with streaming to appreciate the difference, and on my 72" 720p projection, many movies look very satisfying. of course netflix has those occasional data rate drops, but they're becoming less frequent. helps of course to have a fast connection.

but comparing to a usb stick which can be made out of all metal, a disc looks terribly vulnerable by comparison. curious if theres data regarding how many discs are thrown out each year due to scratches/abuse/etc...
 
Has anyone tried? I don't even know.

I would suspect publishers may be wary of copy protection issues. Also, in order to get it to function like an optical disc, with menus, and so forth, it would at least require firmware updates. I don't know the engineering, if current Blu-ray or streaming devices, or TVs, can simply have firmware upgrades in order to accommodate it.

If you can do it all seamlessly with existing gear, then it might work. If it requires buying new equipment, it's a tougher road.
 
a visit to thepiratebay would probably convince anyone wary of copy protection just how futile any of their efforts have currently been. I'd be surprised if we ever see a truly secure delivery format
 
Very true, though it strikes me as Blu-ray being more secure than what amounts to a simple drive with the files already there ready to upload. At least with disc, you have to do some work to get there.
 
Discs are absurdly cheap and easy to produce en masse. There's no way USB sticks could ever match those economics. For me personally, as good as streaming has gotten, and Netflix and iTunes downloads are approaching blu ray quality, blu ray is still superior. If I had a 40-60 inch TV i would probably never buy a blu ray again unless it was a film I absolutely loved and wanted to absorb all the extras. But I have a projector and 106 inch screen, so even a slight dip in quality is noticeable.
 
fair enough, let's fork it to this thought: Since DVDs are still widely sold, and dual layer is around 8gb, and you can get an 8gb usb stick for less than $1/gb...

Dvds are of course stupid cheap to reproduce even when compared to bluray.
So let's suppose the usb stick costs a few times more than discs, i would postulate they could get the production cost down to a mere few dollars if not less.
what about packaging? Disc cases may be cheap, but the smaller size of the usb drive could make for an even cheaper case.
then there's shipping costs, the case size for a usb stick should reduce shipping costs in both distribution as well as end user acquisition.

and most important of all: marketability. bluray/3d/widescreen/etc... have all been pushed to get people to buy into the latest and greatest technology, regardless of whether it's good or even makes sense. if they tacked on an extra 2 bucks to the cost of a movie to put it onto a usb stick and be able to market the holy hell out of this latest, greatest development in home theater convenience and technology, blah blah etc etc...
 
Optical discs have higher fidelity over time. They are read-only, and while they will degrade, it takes a lot longer than with flash media.
 
Disc delivery format remains because the manufacturers still want to continue to sell the players and high markup hdmi cables.
 
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I canceled the Blu-ray/DVD portion of Netflix, too, but because they're so far behind in selection, and I can do better paying per at a Redbox.
 
lovely, a few more points brought up:

life expectancy: well, flash media has a somewhat arbitrary expected shelf life, but many people seem to point more to the cycles, and you get hundreds if not thousands of read cycles for a particular flash drive, i don't know how many times you want to watch good burger, but i think even just a few dozen times would be far beyond the average view rate.

But to balance things out, life expectancy has to take into account durability, and like barry described, discs are horribly prone to glitches with even minor damage, as discs increase their capacity, that means less surface area per bit, so the denser the storage area, the bigger the impact of a particular size scratch. hence DVDs being less glitchy than bluray.

love the high markup on hdmi cables point. but this should be neutral because we still need a box to play the files (though im sure soon TVs will have all that built in, some already do)

actually that's another interesting area of discussion as to why more makers haven't built bluray into the tvs. slim and sleek is all the rage these days, having a slot player built in is surprisingly scarce.
 
I feel like optical media killed the rental markets, for years it was nearly impossible to get a clean watch through of a movie without a glitch as Barry points out. In a big city it was bad enough but also in small towns I've worked in where there was only one store with nearly every one of their DVD's scratched to an unwatchable state.

it's a massive step backwards in my opinion, people by and large don't take care of their stuff(especially technology) so remove the ability for them to be able to touch smear and scratch the delicate portion of the media.

It's like going from VHS to reel to reel VHS where you are expected to handle the spool yourself, no thank you(well not that delicate but hopefully you get what I mean). Obviously it's a money grab but with piracy and the move to online and digital delivery why shoot yourself in the foot.

I still have yet to buy into blu-ray(and I salivate over bonus features, prime demo) due to that fact I have thousands worth of dvds, of which only a handful will play smoothly every time. To be honest I have no idea what the new home ownership delivery method should be but then again that is not my job... thank the lord.

Now you give me some new 4k blu-ray's in a protective case sealed only to be opened in a special drive to read and write to them and you may have my interest. What were those dvd's called? those backup CD's and DVD's in the protective cases they should have been how the technology progressed in a kind of floppy disc style, but alas convenience and style won out over practicality and longevity.

ah well hopefully by the time it really matters to me how my content is delivered to the public, they will have their ish sorted, otherwise I'll sort it myself... kidding!

ah well onward and upward or rather sideways, have a good one!
 
I bought a blu-ray player for the internet connection app to Netflix and the upscale capability when playing DVDs. Netflix streams very well for me with satisfactory image quality. Unfortunately, their streaming library is still very limited so I still play DVDs. If they had all their DVD titles available for streaming as well as more current movies then I would probably no longer have a need for DVDs.
 
Mark Williams said:
If they had all their DVD titles available for streaming as well as more current movies then I would probably no longer have a need for DVDs.
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Until the 'title available' is no longer available. One of the reasons people collect DVDs is to own the stuff so that it can't be arbitrarily removed. It has a cost to it, in money and space, but people put up with it, because of shenanigans like titles disappearing and not available. Of course there are those who just want to avoid the cost, but there are also those who resort to piracy because of that factor (that of course, never makes it right).

Have you looked at your streaming cue in netflix? "Available until xx.xx". Screw that. I buy DVDs (and CDs) for a reason (and my wife doesn't appreciate what that does to our bank account), and I am not looking forward to the day when thing go streaming only - sure it's convenient, but even in this respect there are limitations... what happens when you are somewhere with no connectivity?

The USB solution is a fail. How are you storing them? With a DVD I have two options for storage: DVDs in the box, like books, or in binders - I can see them at a glance. How do I do this with a thumb drive? Make a box big enough so I can read the print when they are stacked on the shelf, and then store a tiny drive in a big box? LOL. And binders are out. FAIL. In any case, that doesn't matter, since many folks rip their DVDs to a hard drive for the home media center. That of course applies even more to CDs, you can take your music with you - nobody carries around personal CD players anymore (it's disappearing from homes too) - you rip it all, or download to your ipod or whatever media server. You gotta do it, or don't complain when one day something disappears from Spotify - or Spotify disappears... that imperative is one reason - big reason - piracy will never disappear - there is no technological solutions to economic and rights problems and complications.
 
If you know where to look you can get HDMI cables dirt cheap. I got a 6 foot HDMI cable at the dollar store for 3 bucks a few years ago. Still works great. It's not like the analog days, where cable quality was everything. A digital cable either works perfectly or not at all, with not much slop in between.
 
David Jimerson said:
I wouldn't want a TV such as that. Integrated components just beg for trouble.
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I completely agree, though thinking purely of consumer products - Im curious why some manufacturers haven't gone with a modular approach. For example a company could have X, Y or Z tvs that all come with dock A where you can attach Blu Ray player 1, 2 or 3. Each option with better features and commensurate price. Or the dock for either unit has a cover that stays on for stand alone units.

If I was Sony for example, I'd certainly be looking at this with components including PS4. No cables for anything.
 
There's a lot of reasons why optical discs are still around and will be for a few years:
-Installed base. Who doesn't have a DVD player?
-Connectivity. Try to stream a movie over dial up out in the styx.
-Profitability. A fully packaged, printed DVD can be made for under a buck even at smaller volumes. Physical sales still generate good returns per unit.
-Quality. BluRay is still going to look better than most streamed content. (Of course, this can and most likely will change. Eventually.)
-Standards. You know what you're getting on a DVD or BluRay quality wise. Very little surprise there.
-Permanence. You own it. You know it is there.

USB isn't a viable competitor mainly due to cost and complexity. I know it's easy for any of us to do it, but how's your grandma out on Long Island going to deal with a USB drive? Without the ubiquity of the set top player and TV, there isn't a niche for USB to fill. If you want it on your TV you're going to just stream it through a device or play it off a disc. What's better about USB that can't be done in the other formats?

Streaming is going to continue to eat into the DVD and BluRay market, and mobile is going to eat in to the number of hours in front of a TV. Who knows, maybe wearables like Google Glass will eat in to mobile?

BluRay is likely the last optical disc format we'll see. There just isn't a real need or market beyond it at this point with broadband becoming so ubiquitous.
 
Batutta said:
It's not like the analog days, where cable quality was everything.
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I actually laughed out loud when I read that. Unless you were running cables out into the hundreds of yards, there was no gain to be had with any of the more expensive cables. Basic shielding was it. Beyond that Monster and any other "premium" cable was just a way to separate money from people who fancied themselves "audiophiles".

But yeah…just buy your HDMI cables from Monoprice. http://www.monoprice.com/Category?c_id=102&cp_id=10240
 
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