BlackMagic - URSA Mini

ade4all said:
the image looks more cinematic to me than anything I've seen from the sony fs7 or the new canon c300 mk2 film
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Here's Hook's official word on how it was shot and posted:

CaptainHook said:
Hi, on this page you can find some footage I shot with the URSA 4.6K.


https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursa




Couple of things about the URSA 4.6k footage for some 'background'. I shot this on a prototype so things were still in development and changing. This was also just me shooting solo with the URSA like previously and is "home movie" type stuff intended to be a quick first look. In fact, last time with my URSA beta video i had Danelle helping me to carry some gear but this time it was just me shooting some friends and around the city - definitely no crew or anything like that. For the kitchen shots and the drumming i set up some lights, everything else is 100% natural light, not even bounce. Grading on this video is purposely VERY simple. It's really just a quick setting of white balance, then contrast and saturation. I didn't tweak individual colours or even shift colours with Lift/Gamma/Gain because i wanted to show the great natural colour "out of the box". This part is my personal opinion and obviously now that i work for BMD people will take it with a grain of salt (to be expected), but personally i think we've made a BIG improvement on colour - colour that i already really liked which led me to first purchase the BMCC as a customer. I think the improvement in colour is just as big as the improvement on dynamic range. With DR, so far in my experience i think it's safe to say that whatever you rate the Pocket Camera to be, add roughly 2 stops. 1 stop in the highlights, and another stop in the shadows. I can't wait for people to get this and go shoot some incredible footage with it!
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Is the 4K V2 sensor different from the existing 4K sensor? If so, does it fix fpn and the black spot problem?

As far as ND filters. I am using a Canon 70D for most of my shooting. No problem changing ND after I got used to it.
If it saves a few hundred dollars, I'm OK with that. Just MHI.
 
Kholi said:
Here's Hook's official word on how it was shot and posted:
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That post over at bmcuser is what keeps me interested in the new BM cameras, six hours after de announcement.

Since you said before you were interested in my opinion... here it goes:

First of all, I have no interest in any of the new BM cameras except the 4.6K ones. As I said, I am DR-obsessed. None of the cameras they presented today seems to be a clear improvement over the pocket... except for the ones with the 4.6K sensor, which is APS-C 4K and, according to Hook, has 2 stops more DR than the pocket (which was already the DR leader in the <$5K bracket, slightly ahead of the a7S). All the other cameras have their target market, but it's not me.

Now, regarding the 4.6K sensor, the Fairchild flyer says it has the same DR as the pocket, so I'll want to see a side-by-side expusure ramp DR test where I can see the improvement over the pocket. From the stuff Hook shot, it looks really nice, but so does the pocket. I need proof that these two extra stops are there.

If it has those two extra stops, then it's a worthy rival for the FS7. But I think *I* would prefer the FS7. Because of the lens set I own (vintage Leitz for the Leica-R mount), *I* need a FF sensor, or an APS-C with a short-focal-flange-distance mount (like the E mount, not the EF mount) so I can use a speedbooster. If I get the URSA mini, I have to buy the Sigma 18-35 f/1.8, and use my lenses in a suboptimal way. And I love my lenses.

Not that the mount thing matters a lot, though, because my reasons against the EF one are very personal ones (BM knows how many EF and m43 cameras have sold so far, and they ditched m43, so I guess I'm the odd man out), and I wouldn't be buying an URSAmini even if it had the DR and a m43 mount: it's too expensive for me. The mini 4.6K is $5K with no viewfinder and no shoulder mount. That's twice as much as my most expensive camera so far (a7S), which was already twice as much as my previous two cameras combined. But even worse, the URSAmini is RED-like in the sense that the body is just half of what you're about to pay if you get one. Shoulder mount, viewfinder and battery plate are another $2K. And four 128GB CFast cards (enough for 88 minutes of 4K ProRes shooting) will be $1K even if they fall in price to match fast CF cards. And batteries will be expensive too. The FS7 is much cheaper in this sense: lower bitrate means cheaper media costs, and batteries are smaller and cheaper too. Adding all up, I don't think the URSAmini is a lot cheaper than the FS7 (it's definitely cheaper, but not by much; it's close enough not to be a big issue when deciding, for whoever has the money for them).

Plus, I'm a DSLR guy. Even when I thought this was going to be 15 stops for $3K, plus $1K in media and accessories, I was worried that the thing was too big and heavy for the kind of stuff I shoot. I'm definitely going to keep my a7S for now, and I may even buy the cheapest of the new PIX 4K recorders, or swap it for an NX1 if Samsung adds RAW video recording (pipe dream) or a gamma curve that preserves the full DR from the sensor (doable but I won't hold my breath). I may rent/borrow the URSAmini from time to time, though: if it has those two extra stops, it's a killer camera.
 
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It records Prores 12bit 4:4:4, how much does that add to the cost of the FS7 if you want it.
 
Surf it Mike said:
For this price you want built in NDs ?
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So just for the record. The Sony F7 is listed at B&H for $7,999.00 The Ursa Mini in my case 4.6k EF is $4995.00 the handle kit is $395.00 the viewfinder is $1495.00 for a total of $6885.00. That is not a big difference and as I said earlier this is an unproven camera. So this is not a $3K camera. The F7 has ND
 
Yes unproven that will be the big test . Bags not be the 1st to own.

However it has 444Prores XQ UHD which is heavier than ARRIRAW Open Gate and F65 RAW SQ. There are real possibilities with this camera in controlled light situations if it delivers. Seen other posts about shooting with it at high ISOs but IMO this is not what this camera is about, hence no internal ND. If you want high ISO, run & gun go Canon or Sony.
 
If you want to get the viewfinder and handle there might be a bundle price in the near future. That's what they said in an interview.
 
Kholi said:
People don't realize this... it would add a pretty significant cost ot the camera to actually build one that's up to the standards of filters you can purchase for Matteboxes.

Ryan Walters did a comparison of the C300 internals versus TrueNDs... the TrueNDs won out. Just knowing that information, I would still choose to use external NDs as much as possible.
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Same POV here, Kholi (E :-)
 
Surf it Mike said:
For this price you want built in NDs ?
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Yeah I do. It's what will keep me from buying one. I'm sure they will
sell plenty without me, so small loss to them. Just saying, that IS what
I would want. And if you are concerned that internal ND are subpar, you
could always leave them off and use a mattebox (I've tested the ND's in the
FS700 and they seem better than any external filter I was able to get ahold of,
and they don't get smudged.)

It's kind of like saying "Well, I don't need 24p, so I'd rather buy a camera that
didn't have it because I only shoot 60i.) Having more choices is good in my opinion.

The cost of built in ND filters is too high? I confess I am not an expert on this and
maybe you are right. Yet somehow other large sensor camera have managed to do it
and still keep a reasonable cost....that is the part that seems a little strange....because he
seems to be saying otherwise in the video....suggesting it is too hard or expensive? Not sure
why as there seem to be quite a few large sensor cameras with built in ND these days. I guess
if you don't want to include them, just don't but to make it sound like no one else is including them
either seems a bit 'off' to me.
 
Some do some don't, cinema cameras don't .

IMO this give clues as to what BM believe this camera is about and the market they are targeting.
 
@Samuel H Don't get too excited about the 15 stops until you find out how bad the rolling shutter is.
Anybody know the max ISO on this thing? BM are saying it's got an extra stop in the shadows and highlights. Is the 2k cropped or downsampled?
 
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