BlackMagic - URSA Mini

Ok now the pricing makes more sense. To get the Ursa mini EF mount complete kit will cost you $6980 or $8930 for the old Ursa EF with the new 4.6K sensor. Not that much lower than the competition with a similar feature set. Depends what you need.

Any info on native ISO? It's got to be better than the old Ursa at 320ISO.
 
bumkicho said:
Does anyone know if selecting global shutter or rolling shutter will impact dynamic range at all?
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Global shutter will take it down to 13 or 14 stops of dynamic range, which should stil be plenty. In a rough test I did --- a white shirt in direct sunlight and a black shirt in shade --- I measured 11 stops. Roger N. Clark measures 11 stops in a similar test. Anyway, the hit of 1-2 stops for global shutter mode can be found in at least two places:

1. Nofilmschool says "15 Stops Dynamic Range in Rolling Shutter Mode (A stop or two less in Global Shutter mode)"

2. The sensor's specs match the new BAE Fairchild LTN4625A image sensor. Their specs say that global shutter would subtract 1.3 stops. They say the full-well capacity is 40,000 electrons and the noise is 2 electrons in rolling shutter mode, 5 electrons in global shutter. So rolling shutter dynamic range is 20,000:1, or 14.3 stops. Global shutter is 8,000:1, or 13 stops.

---

Technical note: So you might ask, where does Blackmagic get 15 stops, if Fairchild says 14.3? There is little doubt that this is the sensor, though. It is the same brand as the Pocket and Cinema Camera. Its resolution matches exactly (4,608 x 2,592) and its size (25.3 x 14.3 mm) is no more than half a millimeter longer on each side than Super 35 (24.89 x 14 mm). My best guess is that Blackmagic does their own tests for dynamic range instead of the ISO 15739 standard, which I think is just dividing well capacity by noise floor. But sometimes Blackmagic is higher, sometimes lower. This time, they're higher. But last time they were lower: The sensors in the Cinema Camera (Fairchild CIS2521F) and Pocket (Fairchild CIS1910F) are each around 14.5 stops according to Fairchild, but Blackmagic says that they are 13. I got these sensor model numbers of the Cinema and Pocket from Joshua Cadmium in this thread at BMCUser: BMCC4K? New Fairchild Sensor - Same DR of the Pocket and Cinema, but in 4.5k.
 
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URSA gets both sensors (4k/120 V2 Sensor and 4.6K/120FPS 15 Stop sensor)
Minor is non interchangeable with either 4K/120 V2 (3k) or 4.6K/60 (5K)

Both cameras will allow global shutter AND rolling shutter switching/modes, so you get what you need when you need it.

URSA will max the sensors potential, as it should... it was built just for that.

Blackmagic's DR ratings (if I remember this right) are based on what they feel are usable ranges, and from maximizing their own log profiles. The original 2.5K was rated at 14, but usability was 13--they worked pretty hard to get it there with a base ISO of 800

The new sensor's capabilities are a bit understated from manufacturer from what I've gathered. Not insanely understated, just enough to make it an incredibly strong candidate for great options.

Color Science will likely follow the Pocket color, and advance in a great way by the time the first sensors start to ship for URSA upgrades..
 
Thomas Smet said:
To be honest I would rather use my own ND filters these days. ND filters can affect quality way too much to just assume any ND filter in a camera is of the highest quality. The quality of glass one adds to a camera should be a choice each person makes. I for one don't want to use cheaper ND filters built into a camera. Yes the convenience is there but I tend to care more about quality than convenience these days.
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Thing is though, with NDs and various other features that some feel they can live without, if you have them you can always choose not to use them and use your own NDs instead - but not the other way round! It just expands the user base.
Steve
 
Hey Kholi, do you know the frame rate with the 4k/120 V2 sensor on the Mini, by any chance?

I just pre-ordered the 4.6K Mini from Hotrod Cameras because... well, it's awesome. And Hotrod Cameras are awesome.

But I'm still interested in what the other specs are for the cheaper 4K mini. If it can do 4K / 120 then that gets interesting!

A clear table on Blackmagic's site would be a nice thing.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
personally the way I shoot, I do not see myself buying a camera without built in nd filters, I want to think that the internal nd is one of the features that made the canon c100 and c300 so successful
 
bruceallen said:
Hey Kholi, do you know the frame rate with the 4k/120 V2 sensor on the Mini, by any chance?

I just pre-ordered the 4.6K Mini from Hotrod Cameras because... well, it's awesome. And Hotrod Cameras are awesome.

But I'm still interested in what the other specs are for the cheaper 4K mini. If it can do 4K / 120 then that gets interesting!

A clear table on Blackmagic's site would be a nice thing.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
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1 or 2 units, Bruce?

That Ref Input (1 x BNC Reference Input) allows genlock for 3D shooting or am I getting wrong?

E :-)
 
Sttratos said:
Ok now the pricing makes more sense. To get the Ursa mini EF mount complete kit will cost you $6980 or $8930 for the old Ursa EF with the new 4.6K sensor. Not that much lower than the competition with a similar feature set. Depends what you need.

Any info on native ISO? It's got to be better than the old Ursa at 320ISO.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by "complete kit"...?
 
Emanuel said:
1 or 2 units, Bruce?

That Ref Input (1 x BNC Reference Input) allows genlock for 3D shooting or am I getting wrong?

E :-)
Click to expand...

I believe it absolutely does allow for stereo shooting, yes :) - and also with more than 2 cameras synchronized.

So far I am being a good boy and constraining myself to 1 unit until I've had a chance to test the sensor and the camera. I want to see the DR difference between the global and rolling shutter modes, color rendition, etc.

If the camera's as good as it seems to be, I can always get another!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
bruceallen said:
It absolutely does allow for 3D shooting, yes :)

So far I am being a good boy and constraining myself to 1 unit until I've had a chance to test the sensor and the camera.

If it's as good as it seems to be...

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
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Remember, the sensor's dropping into an URSA upgrade turret first... guess we'll have to meet at Tim's place soon.
 
Im curious if the 4K sensor will have the issues the other BM cams have (sun black spots etc).

For 2K in savings, as long as the 4K sensor is good I may consider that as opposed to the 4.6....
Either way will depend on ISO performance as well
 
Thomas Smet said:
To be honest I would rather use my own ND filters these days. ND filters can affect quality way too much to just assume any ND filter in a camera is of the highest quality. The quality of glass one adds to a camera should be a choice each person makes. I for one don't want to use cheaper ND filters built into a camera. Yes the convenience is there but I tend to care more about quality than convenience these days.
Click to expand...

I understand your position but there are some of us who work in situations that don't allow the luxury of time but still want the features of large sensor etc. There is nothing to prevent someone like yourself setting a camera with built in ND to 0 and using your own. Having just sold my FS100 with no ND and then looking at the Cion and passing on it because of no ND I am a hard sell on no built in.With all due respect, I seriously wonder if indeed as you say the quality of those ND filters is "cheaper" because I have some very nice 4x5 NDs and a lovely B+W variable all by Schnieder a reputable firm. I will have a look later at the built in on my PMW300 and compare it with the MB 4x5. So with the cost between the F7 and the Ursa Mini being not much less when you add the VF and the handle and base kit and the cost of CF cards, well the F7 is still looking very very good IMHO and its out there working right now.
 
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chappelldigital said:
Im curious if the 4K sensor will have the issues the other BM cams have (sun black spots etc).

For 2K in savings, as long as the 4K sensor is good I may consider that as opposed to the 4.6....
Either way will depend on ISO performance as well
Click to expand...

I beleive the 4k sensor will be the same sensor that is currently in the production camera. Not great ISO performance there. The new 4.6k sensor has yet to be tested, but we do know it goes up to 1600 ISO, so quite a bit better.
 
Speaking of built in ND filters it was hilarious to see Grant from GM gesticulating about how large a built in ND filter mechanism would be. Apparently he haven't seen Sony, Canon, Panasonic and Arri doing it...
 
Osslund said:
Speaking of built in ND filters it was hilarious to see Grant from GM gesticulating about how large a built in ND filter mechanism would be. Apparently he haven't seen Sony, Canon, Panasonic and Arri doing it...
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Yeah, it's not like everyone else that has a large sensor camera cannot do this. It's a shame
as I almost certainly would have purchased one if it had built in ND. Large sensor, nice
looking form factor (yeah, sometimes I just want a good shouldermount camera). But with
no built in ND, it's going to be a no buy for me. I did that once with the FS100 and after
I sold it and moved up to a FS700, I really don't want to do that again. And if I did, it
would be because I was buying a SMALL camera....not a big one.
 
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