BlackMagic Full-Frame 6K pocket cinema camera
- Thread starter ahalpert
- Start date
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Most of my shooting is on gimbal, including when I'm on slider and often even tripod set-ups. I mostly control the camera remotely and don't need to handle the body or go into menus.
FX3 is substantially smaller body and appreciably lighter as well. I really don't care about the body much beyond shape and weight since I don't touch it often.
I can use filters to get ND. But many an FX6 shooter has complained about the lack of stabilized E-mount lenses. (IBIS preferable to IS imo.)
Btw WB can be set to a body button. i've rigged a toggle to turn shutter speed wheel into kelvin wheel. But i rarely use it since i just set WB on my smartphone app.
I still have an FS7 that I use sometimes for interviews. Of course, FX6 is vastly superior but some of those advantages are less useful for interviews, such as framerates, detail, high base ISO, and AF. And lately I mostly use an FX3 in its stead anyway.
Yeah but they might make less money if people aren't guided towards more expensive cameras by internal ND. And it's not like the competition is forcing their hand. When do you think the fx3 mk2 will launch?
ahalpert
Major Contributor
If that was all it had, I'd still have to use vari ND constantly. I think I'd need at least a 2/4/6
alaskacameradude
Veteran
Haha I was just thinking
‘I can use a tripod or a gimbal or an Easyrig to
get steady shots. But not having to fiddle with
screw on filters or matte boxes for ND is priceless.’
Of course I’d rather have both (hello Burano!
O wait…$25k? Nevermind.)
It’s true they might make less if people aren’t guided
towards more expensive cameras by internal ND.
Yet Sony seems to do this sort of thing often. In
many ways, the FX6 was ‘better’ than the more
expensive FX9 yet they didn’t hold back features on
the FX6 to try and drive customers to the FX9.
Also Sony would probably up the price on the
FX3 ii. They would get FX3 users wanting to
upgrade. They would get FX6 users wanting a
B-cam or wanting to upgrade their B cam from the
Fx3. Much better to sell something to your
existing customers than to have to try to convince
Canon or BlackMagic or Red users to come over,
you will have much better luck with the number of buyers.
This is all just my opinion of course. As for timeline
I would think not for a year or so. I bet they are working
on trying to get ND in that FX3 though. So many
customers have told them it ‘would be the perfect
camera’ if the FX3 had built in ND. I suspect that is
one reason they figured out a way to get both
ibis and variable nd in the Burano.
Run&Gun
Veteran
Yep. To me internal ND is 10 million billion trillion times more important and useful than ibis. If a manufacturer said you can only have one, I wouldn’t even have to think about it for a nano second.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
I like having ibis even on gimbal. They play well together and it provides the last mile of smoothness. Especially useful on 85mm+ or on zooms that shift balance, although i practically never use a zoom anymore.
I don't shoot much doc/eng so it's pretty rare that adjusting my vari ND is too slow to get the shot. But with ibis all my footage is smoother. I also basically never shoot handheld or need the handheld look anymore. It just has to do with what I shoot these days.
I bet they would add $500 to the retail price if they stick in ND. At that point, the price of the FX3 gets pretty close to the FX6. But that's fine, there's not a huge difference to begin with. I think ppl would pay $6k for an FX3 if it nailed the brief.
Talking about legacy cameras anecdotally may not apply but IBIS did not play nice with my GH5 on the gimbal with wide angle lenses. In fact, it ruined some important wedding b-roll with corner wobble. On the other hand, IBIS made for some great shots with normal lenses on the basic hand-held body.
The most useful gimbal combination in my kit is the GH5S (non-IBIS) and PanaLeica 12-60mm f/2.8 stabilized lens. That combination plays nice together with decent low light potential, focuses pretty reliably with the legacy contrast detect AF, is easy to carry and hold.
I object to polarized variable ND, not sure how the Sony variable ND works but why don't they put it on the Venice? I am content with the rotating 2-4-6 stops IRND arrangement but that likely rules out mirrorless bodies.
The upgrade camera I keep my eye on remains the Nikon Z8 which has all the advanced shooting modes except ND.
The most useful gimbal combination in my kit is the GH5S (non-IBIS) and PanaLeica 12-60mm f/2.8 stabilized lens. That combination plays nice together with decent low light potential, focuses pretty reliably with the legacy contrast detect AF, is easy to carry and hold.
I object to polarized variable ND, not sure how the Sony variable ND works but why don't they put it on the Venice? I am content with the rotating 2-4-6 stops IRND arrangement but that likely rules out mirrorless bodies.
The upgrade camera I keep my eye on remains the Nikon Z8 which has all the advanced shooting modes except ND.
scorsesefan
Veteran
Speaking of AF is it even usable on the FF BM?
scorsesefan
Veteran
I almost clicked the buy button on the 6k cinema camera, but besides the Arri like look there isn't much more to like about this camera. For instance lack of IS, internal ND, the form factor. With the rolling shutter on this cam I would be afraid to even pan or shoot any action. And then there's the lack of AF. Red is now implementing face tracking AF in their cinema cameras: https://ymcinema.com/2023/09/28/red-v-raptor-goes-face-tracking-auto-focus/?expand_article=1 I just don't get why BM doesn't see the need to implement things that shooters want on their cams...
NorBro
Major Contributor
It's only recently in the last 2-3 years that pretty much everyone is very much warmed up to AF/IBIS...but for many years that crowd, and others, did not care about any of that stuff and wanted what they were implementing like color science, RAW, HFRs.
The GUI/menu is still the best in the game and these cameras were easily the most good-looking until about 2020 when Japan said, 'okay, let's show 'em what we got', and started changing their approach starting with the R5 and a7SIII.
Not exactly the same IQ, but different in a good way and very high-quality, plus you get that newer tech.
P.S. Regarding any of RED's AF, it's recommended to do own testing with your own lenses and scenarios.
The GUI/menu is still the best in the game and these cameras were easily the most good-looking until about 2020 when Japan said, 'okay, let's show 'em what we got', and started changing their approach starting with the R5 and a7SIII.
Not exactly the same IQ, but different in a good way and very high-quality, plus you get that newer tech.
P.S. Regarding any of RED's AF, it's recommended to do own testing with your own lenses and scenarios.
scorsesefan
Veteran
Yes my a7siii is definitely a beast. But even with Sony’s vastly improved color science there’s something cold and video-like about their aesthetic compared to BM and Red. I think it’s the color science but also the motion cadence…
I think the determining factor is that they have to play nice with the Japanese manufacturers for 1) a licensable lens mount 2) sensors. They are content to play in the lane provided and were able to move up to FF-land with a pretty old sensor not well suited for video in 2023.
Adopting the L mount makes sense for BM. If they make a very low RS, box FF cinema camera with ND -- I bet it would sell pretty well. I would never consider one until they ditch that abhorrent body, but love Resolve & the look of a lot of the video coming out of their cameras.
scorsesefan
Veteran
Yeah, my wish list would be low RS, IS, better form factor, longer battery life, an lcd that can be mounted at different points on the body, e ND and an e mount -- of course the last two would be nearly impossible as Sony wouldn't license them, or it would cost an arm and a leg...
NorBro
Major Contributor
Haven't looked into the legal stuff but this Z CAM eND hasn't been shut down yet (link below) and I think BM would be a company that would make something like this, but they are in their corporate stage right now and have been recycling this Pocket body they've had for 5-6 years while maximizing profits (whatever ones exist from such cheap cameras).
Probably will get another one or two 6K pocket iterations within 6 months and then eventually they will move onto something else if they still want to make Pocket-like cameras.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ule_for_z.html
Probably will get another one or two 6K pocket iterations within 6 months and then eventually they will move onto something else if they still want to make Pocket-like cameras.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ule_for_z.html
drboffa
Well-known member
Apart from IS this sounds a lot like an FX6...
scorsesefan
Veteran
Ha, ha, yeah, that's why I own an fx6. Just swap out the sensor with BM's and add a few stops of DR...
scorsesefan
Veteran
I didn't realize ZCAM had this. Maybe it's implementation is different?
NorBro
Major Contributor
I'm not sure, but companies are always looking for loopholes as we've seen with external RAW vs. internal RAW.
Maybe b/c it's an external module, it's okay - or maybe eND is not protected enough - or maybe Sony doesn't care - or maybe Z CAM is paying Sony something; really can't say but it's usually one or more something like that.
Maybe b/c it's an external module, it's okay - or maybe eND is not protected enough - or maybe Sony doesn't care - or maybe Z CAM is paying Sony something; really can't say but it's usually one or more something like that.