Other: BlackMagic Cinema camera!!!! 2.5k for 3k...
- Thread starter Mickey G
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dustylense
Veteran
Baby steps. That cam will come and at a lovely price.
Cosimo Bullo
Veteran
Lowlight: I don't need a camera that does all things. If this thing is released as a 320iso camera, so be it. I have other choices for lowlight. What I really need is a small camera that can deal with highlights and shadows and has re you can hang your hat on at 1080.
There are some valid real world excuses for not lighting though, in my opinion. Your budget might not be able to afford them, or there might be a need to be low-profile. That was the main draw to HDSLRs for me. Their disgustingly shallow depth of field also helps mask the low-budget set design as well.
This seems like an excellent cinema camera. And with excellent production design and lighting, will most likely out-perform an HDSLR in a cinema setting. However, to afford those things (lighting, set design), that usually (not always) means you're shooting a higher-budget production anyway. Usually you can probably afford to rent an ALEXA or a RED for that price.
That's my only real question with this camera. What position does it really serve? Cheers.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Manual Nikons can be mounted on an EF mount using a simple mechanical adapter. That's what I used to use my ZF's on my 7D.
Cosimo Bullo
Veteran
"What position does it really serve?"
Latitude and clarity. And post flexibility. Fairly serious concerns for many here, and problems we've been hoping could be addressed with a low cost solution soon.
Latitude and clarity. And post flexibility. Fairly serious concerns for many here, and problems we've been hoping could be addressed with a low cost solution soon.
Cosimo Bullo
Veteran
So can our Contax primes... very flexible if you use the EF mount.
I may be going back to Contax Zeiss. I'm debating those or Nikon, but only because I've got the 24/2 already.
I get that. Hey, I work as an editor, and trust me I've ran into so many problems and annoyances with HDSLRS over the years. So this camera is an exciting news for me too! I'm looking forwards to editing footage from it.
I'm just wondering exactly WHO will be using this camera, that's all. This is a low-cost camera that belong in a higher-cost production (lighting, location, set design). That is the only question I have.
Here is a reply from someone I was discussing the camera with on facebook regarding their 1st impressions after seeing the camera at NAB. (Note this does not reflect my opinions on the camera but some very valid points)
"The crowd was too large for me to actually get my hands on it, but I did study it for a while. 4/3 sensor makes lenses appear much longer than they actually were. Touchscreen interface seems like it could be a pain, because without an external monitor, you lose image when you need to change any settings, because the camera is extremely menu-driven and everything is controlled through the touchscreen. Little to no physical buttons. No interchangeable or removable batteries. Need to plug the whole camera into the wall to charge it. Maybe not a big deal since they're pushing thunderbolt transfer anyways, so you need to plug the camera into a computer anyway to download. Mounts didn't look interchangeable, might be fixed EF, not certain. The camera is extremely wide, so it might pose an issue for shoulder mounted configurations, and your AC will have to stand behind you instead of to the side to see the menus. Could make quick changes while pulling focus a pain. Also, can't mount anything behind the camera, batteries or counterbalance, above the rods because you will block the screen. This makes all shoulder configurations (that I can imagine at least) either very bulky, because external batteries will have to hang below the rods, or very front heavy if you don't mount anything behind the camera. Could be a good camera, I've only seen the test footage that's been floating around online (which all looks a bit soft and could be attributed to lenses, focus, compression, etc.) so it's difficult to judge quality at this point. Price could offset all of these things though, if all you need is a super cheap RAW workflow. If you need any sort of user friendliness, I'd look elsewhere. It's going to take a bit for the aftermarket to figure this system out."
My thoughts based on what I’ve seen so far...
For $3k (including a copy of Resolve) I see this as a fantastic piece of kit. Maybe not usable for many applications due to many of the reasons mentioned above but I'm sure it will deliver some fantastic images for many people.
I've been thinking (based on what I've seen online) that this camera is all about best bang for the $ Image quality-wise and efficient post-workflow.
User friendliness and ergonomics, not so much. Which I guess is to be expected from BlackMagic considering their history with building actual cameras...
"The crowd was too large for me to actually get my hands on it, but I did study it for a while. 4/3 sensor makes lenses appear much longer than they actually were. Touchscreen interface seems like it could be a pain, because without an external monitor, you lose image when you need to change any settings, because the camera is extremely menu-driven and everything is controlled through the touchscreen. Little to no physical buttons. No interchangeable or removable batteries. Need to plug the whole camera into the wall to charge it. Maybe not a big deal since they're pushing thunderbolt transfer anyways, so you need to plug the camera into a computer anyway to download. Mounts didn't look interchangeable, might be fixed EF, not certain. The camera is extremely wide, so it might pose an issue for shoulder mounted configurations, and your AC will have to stand behind you instead of to the side to see the menus. Could make quick changes while pulling focus a pain. Also, can't mount anything behind the camera, batteries or counterbalance, above the rods because you will block the screen. This makes all shoulder configurations (that I can imagine at least) either very bulky, because external batteries will have to hang below the rods, or very front heavy if you don't mount anything behind the camera. Could be a good camera, I've only seen the test footage that's been floating around online (which all looks a bit soft and could be attributed to lenses, focus, compression, etc.) so it's difficult to judge quality at this point. Price could offset all of these things though, if all you need is a super cheap RAW workflow. If you need any sort of user friendliness, I'd look elsewhere. It's going to take a bit for the aftermarket to figure this system out."
My thoughts based on what I’ve seen so far...
For $3k (including a copy of Resolve) I see this as a fantastic piece of kit. Maybe not usable for many applications due to many of the reasons mentioned above but I'm sure it will deliver some fantastic images for many people.
I've been thinking (based on what I've seen online) that this camera is all about best bang for the $ Image quality-wise and efficient post-workflow.
User friendliness and ergonomics, not so much. Which I guess is to be expected from BlackMagic considering their history with building actual cameras...
Cosimo Bullo
Veteran
Kholi, I've done a few informal tests between our Contax and Nikkor lenses. I have to tell you, the 85 1.4s looked almost identical throughout the stop range. Both lovely. The big difference of course is that the Contax's focus the 'correct' direction, and for me, that decides it.
I only have one major gripe with the design and that's with the placement of the I/O ports, which should never be on the left side of the camera. This makes any sort of shoulder mounted design ridiculously hard to implement, because cables will be sticking out into your face or in the way of an external monitor/EVF. No other camera out there has ports on the left. I hope somebody has raised this up with them at NAB. Otherwise, this is bloody amazing.
Cosimo Bullo
Veteran
Sorry to split hairs, but the GH2 has ports on the left and the 5d has many there too, no?
We've heard a few reports of rolling-shutter artifacts, but have there been any comments from Blackmagic Design about the issue? I take it that it's not the sCMOS sensor mentioned earlier in this thread, because that has a global-shutter mode.
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Barry_Green
Moderator
Genuine, sustained LOL.
Erich Ocean
Active member
The way I see this camera, it's worth it, today, for $3K. But more importantly, buying it, giving feedback, and getting BM feeling great about selling cameras is going to give us more of what we want in the future, but at similar price points.
BM is a very responsive company, with great customer service. They listen. They're disruptive.
Buying the camera today, even though it could be better, is the right move if you want more of where this came from.
BM is a very responsive company, with great customer service. They listen. They're disruptive.
Buying the camera today, even though it could be better, is the right move if you want more of where this came from.
StephenM
Well-known member
I spent some time with the camera at NAB today and here are some impressions, and answers received from the staff. Any opinions are mine, coming from an indie filmmaker point of view, and as such may not be relevant for run-n-gun or event shooters.
Mount: The camera is an EF mount only. They are now correctly saying ZE in the booth rather than ZF. So, no direct F mount support in this version. They mount itself looked quite robust, lots of steel and torx screws.
Sensor: It is not a 4/3 sensor as has been discussed fully here. IMHO, the error may have come from the talking points the staff were given. One of the fellows said that it was a 4:3 sensor using less than the full sensor, and thought that some of his associates may simply misinterpreted 4:3 as 4/3. Anyway, just an opinion. They also confirmed that it scales the full image when shooting in 1080, it does not crop the sensor. They also confirmed that it is a CMOS sensor, and I did observe some rolling shutter artifacts during whip pans, as would be expected.
Anamorphic: I mentioned that I would be interested in seeing anamorphic support and they wrote it down, like they were counting how many people asked. They definitely thought it might be technically possible but didn't think we'd see it in the first camera.
TimeCode: There is not timecode currently. They did say that discussions were on-going about using the audio input in some way to jam sync, but again no promises. For my part this is the one thing that I really wish they had added.
Battery: The battery is internal, just like the Hyperdeck. It takes an external source of 12-30v (yes 30) for charging the battery. IMO, this is just fine as it allows for changing of the external battery without stopping the camera. I can't count how many times over the years a brick has run out on me in the middle of a take. With this internal battery, it will act like a UPS on a computer. Again, I shoot narrative, so having a larger rig with bricks is not an issue for me. Your mileage may vary.
Frame Rate: 30 fps is the maximum. They stated that the reason is processing power and the speed of the SSD's. IMO, I don't think we should expect it to increase in the first version. I asked them about faster rates for ProRes given the smaller data output size, but the answer given was that camera does all it's processing at 2.5 raw before sending it to the scaler/compressor and is such still subject to the raw performance implications.
Freebies: The inclusion of DaVinci and Ultrascope is terrific. This is a raw camera so post processing is part of the workflow. Including arguably one of the finest CC tools for free is terrific. BTW, I spent a long time with the new DaVinci 9. The new interface changes are (mostly) great and should make it a lot easier for new DaVinci users to get started without losing any of its power. Ultrascope is very nice as well, particularly if you already have a thunderbolt laptop.
Overall, it looks like a terrific camera, especially given the price. I'm going to pick one up.
Mount: The camera is an EF mount only. They are now correctly saying ZE in the booth rather than ZF. So, no direct F mount support in this version. They mount itself looked quite robust, lots of steel and torx screws.
Sensor: It is not a 4/3 sensor as has been discussed fully here. IMHO, the error may have come from the talking points the staff were given. One of the fellows said that it was a 4:3 sensor using less than the full sensor, and thought that some of his associates may simply misinterpreted 4:3 as 4/3. Anyway, just an opinion. They also confirmed that it scales the full image when shooting in 1080, it does not crop the sensor. They also confirmed that it is a CMOS sensor, and I did observe some rolling shutter artifacts during whip pans, as would be expected.
Anamorphic: I mentioned that I would be interested in seeing anamorphic support and they wrote it down, like they were counting how many people asked. They definitely thought it might be technically possible but didn't think we'd see it in the first camera.
TimeCode: There is not timecode currently. They did say that discussions were on-going about using the audio input in some way to jam sync, but again no promises. For my part this is the one thing that I really wish they had added.
Battery: The battery is internal, just like the Hyperdeck. It takes an external source of 12-30v (yes 30) for charging the battery. IMO, this is just fine as it allows for changing of the external battery without stopping the camera. I can't count how many times over the years a brick has run out on me in the middle of a take. With this internal battery, it will act like a UPS on a computer. Again, I shoot narrative, so having a larger rig with bricks is not an issue for me. Your mileage may vary.
Frame Rate: 30 fps is the maximum. They stated that the reason is processing power and the speed of the SSD's. IMO, I don't think we should expect it to increase in the first version. I asked them about faster rates for ProRes given the smaller data output size, but the answer given was that camera does all it's processing at 2.5 raw before sending it to the scaler/compressor and is such still subject to the raw performance implications.
Freebies: The inclusion of DaVinci and Ultrascope is terrific. This is a raw camera so post processing is part of the workflow. Including arguably one of the finest CC tools for free is terrific. BTW, I spent a long time with the new DaVinci 9. The new interface changes are (mostly) great and should make it a lot easier for new DaVinci users to get started without losing any of its power. Ultrascope is very nice as well, particularly if you already have a thunderbolt laptop.
Overall, it looks like a terrific camera, especially given the price. I'm going to pick one up.
Barry_Green
Moderator
No, they will have similar angle of view and identical looks in regards to compression and composition.
The only thing that will be different is, at an equal f-stop, the DOF will be different. But if you compensate for the DOF difference by changing the iris, and otherwise equalizing exposure, you can make them all look identical.