Birger Mount

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filmfan222 said:
If Panny's game plan was to be first to market, and let third parties fill in the gaps, is the AF100B gonna have a bevy of adapters and accessories with it? M43 and PL are great options, but have critical areas (price, system change) that after months have gone somewhat unaddressed.
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Well... I don't know exactly how to answer this. M43 is M43 and isn't going to change. So anything Birger makes, will inherently and always be forward compatible, not only with the AF100 but also with the GH1, GH2, Olympus Pen, G3, G10, GH3, GH4, GH5, etc etc etc.

PL has no shortcoming, other than those who want it to do something that it doesn't do. PL isn't an electronic connection (cooke metadata notwithstanding); PL does exactly what it does and always did what it did. I think people are expecting it to do more than it does, and that's where the issue comes into play.

Panasonic Broadcast has typically not made lenses or adapters. They make camera bodies, and others (previously Fujinon and Canon) make the lenses and adapters, that's always the way it's been.

The Birger adapter promises to be a revolutionary product, hopefully it can and will deliver soon.
 
SPZ said:
When you have almost 15k invested in Canon EF glass, your next large sensor video camera has to be compatible with it. Reinvesting that amount in lenses + camera package means almost Red EPIC level budget. I want to purchase an F3, but without an EF adapter for it, it just doesn't justify purchase. I believe the same is true for many AF100 buyers and users.
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Understood and agreed. So until an appropriate adapter is issued, your smartest play is to stay on the sidelines.

The surest path to frustration is to buy something that doesn't do what you want, and then complain about it. Like with the GH2 buyers who are frustrated with the lack of 25p. Fact is, it doesn't have 25p, period, so if you need 25p, don't buy it, period. Any other course of action seems to be just silliness, right?

So for those with a ton of money invested in EF glass and whose sole purpose for buying a camera is to use EF glass... there is not a camera on the market (other than a Red One with the Birger adapter) that can do what you want, right? So either you use something else (such as you've been doing for years and years, cameras with built-in lenses etc) or you look into today's options to see if you can live with it (such as using the AF100's ND filters for most exposure changing and a Kipon for fine-tuning), or you wait for some appropriately Canon-compatible camera to be designed.

And by the way, I wasn't suggesting that someone spend $15k to replace their Canon lens collection, I was saying that you get a Lumix or manual lens to get you along for now, until an appropriate adapter exists. The presumption is that you've never been able to use that arsenal of lenses on a video camera before, so not being able to use it on today's camcorder doesn't seem like a serious limitation. It just seems like a missed opportunity.
 
Barry_Green said:
Well... I don't know exactly how to answer this. M43 is M43 and isn't going to change. So anything Birger makes, will inherently and always be forward compatible, not only with the AF100 but also with the GH1, GH2, Olympus Pen, G3, G10, GH3, GH4, GH5, etc etc etc.

PL has no shortcoming, other than those who want it to do something that it doesn't do. PL isn't an electronic connection (cooke metadata notwithstanding); PL does exactly what it does and always did what it did. I think people are expecting it to do more than it does, and that's where the issue comes into play.

Panasonic Broadcast has typically not made lenses or adapters. They make camera bodies, and others (previously Fujinon and Canon) make the lenses and adapters, that's always the way it's been.

The Birger adapter promises to be a revolutionary product, hopefully it can and will deliver soon.
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The shortcoming with PL (and I mean that lightly) is that most PL lenses are more expensive than the AF100 itself! Even CP.2s are 4k a piece :D
 
Barry_Green said:
... M43 is M43 and isn't going to change. So anything Birger makes, will inherently and always be forward compatible, not only with the AF100 but also with the GH1, GH2, Olympus Pen, G3, G10, GH3, GH4, GH5, etc etc etc...

Panasonic Broadcast has typically not made lenses or adapters. They make camera bodies, and others (previously Fujinon and Canon) make the lenses and adapters, that's always the way it's been.
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Understood, but the M43 standard has been promoted as not simply a mechanical lens mount, but an electronic lens control system as well. Panasonic's strategy of building OIS and electronic iris and focus control into its Micro Four Thirds and legacy Four Thirds lenses imposes implicit requirements on the design and testing of its camera bodies to follow through with full support for these features. Anything less than full support of M43 functionality undermines the mutual interoperability of separately purchased M43 components and devalues the investment customers have made in the M43 system as a whole.

My issue with the AF100 is its failure to support full functionality of not only Olympus, but Panasonic's own line of professional Four Thirds and M43 lenses. Here's a link to Panasonic's AF100 lens compatibility page:

http://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/af100/lens_compatibility.html

A glance at this compatibility table shows only partial support for built-in OIS, focusing, and remote control features of M43 and legacy Four Thirds lenses. The AF100's shortfall in Lumix lens support is a significant step back from the extensive range of lens compatibility demonstrated by Panasonic's G-series consumer camera line. What's even more striking is the regression of Lumix lens functionality from the initial standard of compatibility set by the Panasonic L1 camera in 2006. Many of these lenses were marketed as top-of-the-line examples of the superior performance of the Four Thirds and M43 imaging system. Why has their functionality been downgraded rather than supported?
 
mcgeedigital said:
Yes, but there is a reason for that.

And I can use my RED Zooms on my Af-100, Sony F3 or RED.
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Of course, PL is universal, geared correctly, high quality, etc.

It's a little bit of accessory to part ratio. Why do the rims cost more than the car itself type thing. AF100 concept is a sweet spot camera: 5k body, use 1-2k pre-owned lenses.
 
I think that's the wrong analogy. The thing is, you are taking rims originally designed for a higher performance more expensive car and trying to use them on something cheaper, not the other way around.
 
I see the logic of the sentiment about cross-vendor M43 compatibility. However, the M43 lenses are predominantly still type. Their use for video (on the AF100) is possible, but one must recognize that no cine-type M43 lens is produced yet. The closest is the Lumix G 14-140mm.

Now that the AF100 is around, Panasonic has no excuse for the next generation lenses. We can surely make good use of truly compatible M43 lenses, but remember that the M43 system rides on still volumes, not video just yet. Hence, the manufacturers' focus.
 
Hey all.. Been pretty busy.. I see Erik posted the short bit of footage I shot with his wonderful mount. Please understand the footage is RAW (I.E. Not corrected, and some shots may have been selected for showing off what the Birger can do, not our best takes).

Hope you all enjoy it' This was for an indian music video...

Jay
 
jmarkham said:
Except the Kipon is an unmitigated piece of poo. It's been returned .....

jeff
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Second that!
I just got a second hand Lumix 14-140 and .95 voightlander until birger or redrock come through. I should have done this months ago, it's a great camera!
 
sofresh said:
Second that!
I just got a second hand Lumix 14-140 and .95 voightlander until birger or redrock come through. I should have done this months ago, it's a great camera!
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Been recommending that forever. You can always sell those lenses on ebay if you get the Birger or Redrock and decide that it does everything you need, so you won't have lost much if anything. But now you're up and running - glad to hear it!
 
Barry_Green said:
Been recommending that forever. You can always sell those lenses on ebay if you get the Birger or Redrock and decide that it does everything you need, so you won't have lost much if anything. But now you're up and running - glad to hear it!
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Thanks Barry!
 
I have a question for Erik - i wonder if birger mount for Sony FS100 will work on Sony NEX 10 as well, as i understood both cams has same mounts and use same lenses ....... so it seems like it can work out.......
 
I'm a little confused with what lenses give you what functionality. I'm looking at buying an af100 in the near future. I'm not really tied into any lenses at the moment so I'm free to choose. But do any of the brands actually give you full functionality through the af100, so Auto focus, Aperture or is it just going to be Canon EF's once this mount is on the market?


Thanks in advance.

Pete B
 
The only ones that provide full functionality are native lenses -- so, micro Four Thirds lenses. Or, lenses that have an electronic translating adapter, the only one of which on the market is an adapter for Four Thirds lenses.

Any other lens would have to be operated manually, obviously.

The Birger adapter is a translating adapter for EOS lenses, and when it's on the market it will let EOS lenses act as if they're native lenses.
 
Thanks for the quick response Barry.

I read another one of your posts somewhere, where you mentioned I think, that Panasonics Micro four thirds electronic focus was terrible. Sorry if this is wrong, I've been reading loads of posts and may have got my wires crossed?


If so would you recommend waiting for the Birger mount. I'm planning on purchasing an AF100 in the next couple of months, so there isn't a great urgency. I heard you'd tried a prototype of the Birger, on this experience would you say that it's woth going the EOS route over using any of the native four thirds solutions?


Thanks again.
 
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