Better InCamera Audio: Small preamp or full mixer/recorder?

Spartacus

Spartacus

Veteran
For OnManArmy gigs: I don't want to work both a camera and a mixer/recorder.
But I also want to not go straight to the camera's pre-amps.

So I was thinking of an external preamp like the Triton to get a better signal into the camera
and leave the camera's preamps turned down AFAP.
I would still record direct to camera, no dual sound setup.
Will this really give me better sound?

Or do you need an external mixer/recorder and dual sound to really hear a difference in the end?
Thinking in the line of Triton -> Tascam-DR70D -> Zoom F4 -> SD MixPre-3.

Not thinking about getting big in sound, I only have one recurring job I do as a OMA, everything else is normal with AC, sound and grip person and more.
 
The MixPre3 is *tiny*!! Has a heck of a lot of limitations I'd regard as crippling however which means I don't normally recommend it, but for your purposes it would be perfect! (I'd record sound separately anyway, just in case as a back up, and thanks to the HDMI trigger the MixPre3 will do this automatically without you needing to ever start it yourself)

Tascam DR70D/DR60Dmk2 is also fine if on a teeny budget (because you only have one regular job as a OMA).
 
If you already own or are planning to own a SD MixPre-3, you can connect pretty much any XLR mic directly to the MixPre without the Triton inline preamp because the MixPre has a LOT of clean gain. ( the Triton won't be needed )

I would record directly to the MixPre-3 and run some type of out ( not sure what the MixPre-3 offers ) to your camera.

If the MixPre-3 is beyond your budget, then I would look a the Triton and a decent consumer grade recorder that has phantom power : Tascam DR40, Tascam DR60, Tascam DR70, Zoom H5, Zoom H6, etc...

The Triton needs phantom power to work. Also the Triton is only useful if your mic has weak signal output, so depending on the mic you may not need it.
 
TheDingo said:
If you already own or are planning to own a SD MixPre-3, you can connect pretty much any XLR mic directly to the MixPre without the Triton inline preamp because the MixPre has a LOT of clean gain. ( the Triton won't be needed )

I would record directly to the MixPre-3 and run some type of out ( not sure what the MixPre-3 offers ) to your camera.

If the MixPre-3 is beyond your budget, then I would look a the Triton and a decent consumer grade recorder that has phantom power : Tascam DR40, Tascam DR60, Tascam DR70, Zoom H5, Zoom H6, etc...

The Triton needs phantom power to work. Also the Triton is only useful if your mic has weak signal output, so depending on the mic you may not need it.
Click to expand...

If a person is going with a Tascam DR70D / DR60Dmk2 / Marantz PMD-706, then they can skip anything else and just go straight into the mixer/recorder.

If they have budget for more than that, then should just go for a MixPre3 / MixPre6 / Zoom F4 instead from the start.
 
IronFilm said:
If a person is going with a Tascam DR70D / DR60Dmk2 / Marantz PMD-706, then they can skip anything else and just go straight into the mixer/recorder.

If they have budget for more than that, then should just go for a MixPre3 / MixPre6 / Zoom F4 instead from the start.
Click to expand...

Agree 100% here ^^^^^^ Might as well just go for some better quality kit if you are in that range.
 
Firstly what sort of camera are you using?
How fast do you want the turn around to be? (from shooting to final product)
What will the final product going to end up as?

There is no point in spending lots of $$$ and buying lots of gear if its only for low cost youtube clips.
On the other hand if you are being paid for a top level product then you need to deliver that.
 
If you don't care to sync audio in post and your cam can take line level in, a small mixer like the MixPreD would work well. At this point, I wouldn't buy one new at nearly a grand, but a used one for half a grand is still a nice piece of kit. Not everyone wants to sync in post and the MixPreD has some great features including great metering and excellent preamps. And the build quality is simply superior to any of the economy recorders. Obviously, it doesn't record.....

Grant
 
Thanks guys!
Maybe my post was unclear: I'm recording straight into C100/200/300 on these OMB shots.
I use a boomed Audix and a G2 (or Rode Link) with MKE2 (Gold).
I would only consider recording external and syncing in post, if there would be a significant gain in audible quality.
So maybe just using the Triton preamp is enough for getting a better signal into the C's, bypassing (more or less) the C's internal preamps?
This is for internal videos of an international company and it's more about giving a good client due diligence for this lower end gigs and
staying a trusted production partner.
Again, I don't want to pretend I'm a sound person now, if the client wants all the bell and whistles, he should book a full team.
But maybe the other external options from Tascam, Zoom and SoundDevices offer something else, even if just used as a simple preamp?
 
Sounds like you won't go wrong with whatever you choose. A used mixpreD would certainly give you the great preamps directly into the camera and meet your requirement. I chose the MixPre6 because I'm comfortable syncing in post & don't find it to be the least bit difficult nor time consuming. I love having the redundant audio files, and with the external recorder I find myself grabbing sfx/ambient sounds to enhance my OMB projects. It's a lot flexibility for not much cost. But if all you truly need is the pre-amp, hard to argue against the MixPreD.
 
R_Marvin said:
Not sure of your budget but if you could swing it I'd recommend the Sound Devices MixPre-D mixer:

https://www.sounddevices.com/products/mixers/mixpred

$989 USD at B&H.
Click to expand...

The old MixPre-D is made for this -- it's got the right outputs to feed just about any DSLR or other camera. It's got excellent mic preamps, outstanding limiters, and excellent meters. That and the optional camera mount so that the camera can be screwed down on top of the MixPre-D and make a single unit.

When I bought mine I was amazed at what an improvement it made in sound quality, directly feeding my camera and not a dedicated sound recorder. But I'd never buy a new one. The used markets are littered with the things now, at half what B&H wants for a new one.
 
This might be helpful - I did a test wondering what the benefit is with the external mixer and C100 - used my mix-pre & identical lav's (COS11D) let me know what you think.

The difference may be more evident with a boom, but I don't have a matched set of booms to do the same test.

One thing about external recording - you can get 24bit audio as opposed to 16 bit on the camera.

https://youtu.be/A0hJH5a08Wo
 
If you're shooting with a Canon Cxxx camera, then the Triton might be the least expensive route to improving your audio.
 
If you’ll be shooting with the C200 one thing interesting I noticed about the C200 audio specifications, first the regular specifications are:

RAW: Linear PCM (16 bit - 48 kHz - 4 channels)
MP4: MPEG-4 AAC-LC (16 bit - 48 kHz - 2 channels), Linear PCM (16 bit - 48 kHz - 4 channels)

However in the manual on page 209 the audio specifications for the digital inputs are (when the C200 is switched to AES/EBU):

AES3 standard (48 kHz, 24 bit, 2 ch). So with digital input we get 24 bit audio vs. the regular 16 bit.

With the high quality pre-amps of the MixPre-D and its ability to output digital audio, it seems to me that you might get better sound quality with this combination. Disclaimer, I don’t own a MixPre-D yet but have been considering purchasing one for this feature alone.

I also work mostly as a one man band and this appeals to me without having to sync audio from double recording. Although double recording in today’s world is pretty simple it’s one more step you have to deal with.

And has many have stated these can be picked up used for around $500-600.
 
For this ultra low budget / no crew stuff, I'd just run it straight into camera if I was you. As you have enough other things on the day to keep you busy and worry about, rather than adding in another layer of complexity.

But if you are to add anything at all, get the MixPre3 (not the MixPre-D! As the ability to record, plus an extra channel, and its lower price new, puts the MixPre3 ahead).
 
R_Marvin said:
However in the manual on page 209 the audio specifications for the digital inputs are (when the C200 is switched to AES/EBU):

AES3 standard (48 kHz, 24 bit, 2 ch). So with digital input we get 24 bit audio vs. the regular 16 bit.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that info, I will pass it up to the sound persons we work with!

Thanks for all your insights!
I bought a Triton Phantom yesterday. I get why SoundDevices got so many recommendations here, but for this solo-shoots, I want to keep it simple and save.
It's more of a business strategy anyways: If sound is important (and it mostly is), let's let a dedicated professional take care of it.
 
IronFilm said:
For this ultra low budget / no crew stuff, I'd just run it straight into camera if I was you. As you have enough other things on the day to keep you busy and worry about, rather than adding in another layer of complexity.
Click to expand...

There's no real complexity with the Triton inline XLR pre-amp. You simply attach it to the end of your XLR mic and then connect this to your camera with standard XLR cable. Nothing to switch on or off. All the Triton does is give you an extra 18 dB of clean gain to your mic, so weak mics appear to have a much stronger output signal. It might be too much for a hot XLR mic, so you can always detach it from the mic and just run the hot mic directly into your camera. The device is only 2 inches long and weighs about 60 grams, so leaving it attached to a mic is not a big deal.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top