Better be less than 10K

redindian said:
At the same price and feature point (24p HDsomething),
If JVC has interchangable lens and 4:2:0 and
Pana has fixed lens and 4:2:2

JVC would be a much more attractive buy.... coz the image can be manipulated in 1000s of ways, but field-of-vison, DOF cannot be done in post.
Click to expand...


Actually, if the chip is the same size the depth of field will also be the same. Plus since each image frame will not stand alone, as it is HDV. 4:2:0 is 4 samples of luminance in ratio with 2 samples of red and blue on every other line. 4:2:2 is 4 samples of luminance in ratio with 2 samples of red and blue on every line. So more color and on DVCPRO HD each frame stands on its own. And frankly it does not have the same feature point other than one at 24P. as one example, it does not do 50Mb, for 4:2:2 Standard Def. And to manipulate the image in thousands of ways, you would need thousands of lenses. At a 1/3" imager, there are not 1000s of lenses.

FWIW,
Jan
 
redindian said:
JVC would be a much more attractive buy.... coz the image can be manipulated in 1000s of ways, but field-of-vison, DOF cannot be done in post.
Click to expand...

the lense isnt going to change your DOF. at most you could throw a longer lense on to make the DOf apparently shallower. but for equivilent framing you could get the same apparent DOF with a wider lense and simply being closer to your subject... which is likely what youll have to do most of the time unless youve got 50 feet of room in every location you plan to shoot in.
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
Actually, if the chip is the same size the depth of field will also be the same. Plus since each image frame will not stand alone, as it is HDV. 4:2:0 is 4 samples of luminance in ratio with 2 samples of red and blue on every other line. 4:2:2 is 4 samples of luminance in ratio with 2 samples of red and blue on every line. So more color and on DVCPRO HD each frame stands on its own. And frankly it does not have the same feature point other than one at 24P. as one example, it does not do 50Mb, for 4:2:2 Standard Def. And to manipulate the image in thousands of ways, you would need thousands of lenses. At a 1/3" imager, there are not 1000s of lenses.

FWIW,
Jan
Click to expand...

I meant, footage shot in 4:2:0 can be post processed to 'look' like 4:2:2 (thats what I meant by image can be manipulated in 1000s of ways)

field of view
31541666.wacomparison.bmp

Obviously its impossible to get a 18mm field of view with a 32-320mm lens. Thats what I meant.
 
redindian said:I meant, footage shot in 4:2:0 can be post processed to 'look' like 4:2:2 (thats what I meant by image can be manipulated in 1000s of ways)

One of the things that we need to keep in mind, that yes you can put the video into a 4:2:2 algorithm, but if you take it to the very essense of compression, once you have given it(the resolution) away, you can't make it up, you can mask it, but you can't make it up. The rules of concatenation(multiple codecs) apply. And since the DVCPROHD codec is 4:2:2 in its native state in HD or in the DV50 version of its SD res, then how does the HDV work for me? How is making it up through moving to another codec work to my favor?

>field of view:
Obviously its impossible to get a 18mm field of view with a 32-320mm lens. Thats what I meant.

All I can say here is that when you get to 1/3 inch lenses, and I am talking about selling a 1/3" camcorder over 7 years, and very likely it will track to the 1/3" HD lenses, the choice berween lenses will be short. I think the way to deal with the needs of various lens lengths is the same way it works with the DVX. You can either add a lens to the front as a wide angle( and so you can increase the 32mm width) or telephoto. Or you add the mini35 and use 35mm lenses.

Regardless, the P2 product is on an established editing platform, both PC, under Avid Express Pro HD or Apple Final Cut Pro HD.

Hope that helps,

Jan
 
:huh: .. neither jan or i commented on the field of view. ...only the remark concerning DOF.

but as jan said concerning FOV.. you would use a lense adaptor. .. obviously only those of high quality which retain optical integrity.

oh well though.. to each there own. buy whatever suits you. the dvx has a fixed lense and i bout it over the xl1 and kept it over the xl2. just my choice.. its certainly ok to feel differently though.
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
All I can say here is that when you get to 1/3 inch lenses, and I am talking about selling a 1/3" camcorder over 7 years, and very likely it will track to the 1/3" HD lenses, the choice berween lenses will be short.
Hope that helps,

Jan
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Jan. That is a very valid point - the scarcity + expense of such lenes.
 
redindian said:
OMG! that was wonderful... how was it done ?? at what cost ?
purposelabs website doesnt have any details....
Click to expand...


That was done at zero cost, because we were developing the camera. It's digital to onboard 16gb ram that then dumps over 1gb ethernet to laptop.. nice stuff.

But the camera is gonna be about $70k.
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
>

All I can say here is that when you get to 1/3 inch lenses, and I am talking about selling a 1/3" camcorder over 7 years, and very likely it will track to the 1/3" HD lenses, the choice berween lenses will be short.

Jan
Click to expand...

Which is exactly why a 1/2" CCD should be offerred.

There are a lot of things to like about this new camera. However, as a nature videographer, this new camera will most likely not fit my needs. I have been waiting for a camera with good glass that will allow me to fully realize the other capabilities of the DVX. I don't forsee this happening with the new HDX.

I have heard several other people on this forum express the same desire over the past 6 months to 1 year. They are looking for improved glass with the ability to extend the TelePhoto Range. I don't see how the "improved glass" is accomplished without using 1/2" CCDs.

Am I asking for too much??? Perhaps, but I can't afford to spend $35,000.00 on an SPX800 ( as much as I would like to ). I need a better lens ... :cry:
 
Jarred, do you by chance have a stake in a US reseller? I'm outta here. This is not the kind of forum I thought it was.
 
Mike. You didn't just win over any Canadian fans with that comment. If anything you've given Jan and the US even more business. You can't expect people to buy from you when you can't even match some of the great deals being offered in the US. And you can't expect someone to endorse you when they've had nothing but negative experiences.

You haven't given anything to this forum, and you can't expect people to give back to you. Jan has been great with answering questions and listening to our comments and feedback. You've complained that people don't purchase in Canada, you seem to think it's Jarred's fault because of that, but maybe you should be analyzing how you do business.

As an example, people order from Rush at EVS because he's helpful, prompt, and he has great deals for DVXuser. He's built up loyalty on this forum and he's been rewarded with our business. If you think attacking the creator of this forum will get people to order from Panasonic Canada, you're mistaken.

If you want to win producers in Canada I suggest watching Jan and Rush. Their personal contact and help in this forum is something you can learn from.
 
MikeFawcett said:
Jarred, do you by chance have a stake in a US reseller? I'm outta here. This is not the kind of forum I thought it was.
Click to expand...

Thats too bad Mike. It doesn't look too good that you're bailing out. I believe Jarred is only speaking about his personal experience. As a Canadian myself, I hope you stick around and by giving up your also sending the wrong message.
 
Mike, all I can say is try and match what Jan is doing in the US.

And to be honest if you offered a better deal I'm sure a lot of people in the US might think about buying up north.

All I would have to do is call my BC cousins to pick it up for me.
 
MikeFawcett said:
Jarred, do you by chance have a stake in a US reseller? I'm outta here. This is not the kind of forum I thought it was.
Click to expand...

What kind of forum were you expecting ... :laugh: ...

Hey Mike ... let me introduce you to something called capitalism ... The basic tenet works something like this ... Buyers tend to buy the best possible goods and services for the best possible price ...

Read the posts of many in this forum and you will discover that there are a lot of folks who are scraping just enough money together to buy a camera. They can't afford not to get the best possible deal ... Jarred is kind enough to help steer folks away from the less than honest types and help them locate the best possible outfits and deals ...

Get this ... Jarred does not owe you anything ... Nobody on this forum owes you anything ... Want to sell your product ??? Listen, Learn, come up with a plan, coordinate with your fellow sales and marketing reps in Canada ... Then start to implement ... Take your time ... I would set some reasonable goals along with a reasonable timeline ... Like maybe 1 year ... Don't try to "swing for the fences" straight off the bat ... try to win over folks a little at a time ... you may not be the man for the job ... Perhaps you don't have the right attitude to get it done or perhaps you don't have the patience and expect instant results ... I don't know ...

You can't just show up one day and expect instant results ... you have to win people over ... Nobody owes you anything ... got it? Great ... now go do something worthwhile with your life ...

Geesh ... give me a break ...
 
MikeFawcett said:
Jarred, do you by chance have a stake in a US reseller? I'm outta here. This is not the kind of forum I thought it was.
Click to expand...

That is funny... no.. EVS, who has a banner up top and has since day 1 of dvxuser, doesnt pay for that banner. They get that banner because they gave me the best presale support I ever had.

Sorry you got so upset, I offered to try and help you make it better but for some reason you didn't want to.

Forums are interesting places, because you really get to see the truth.. If you say something dumb enough people will call you on it.. same thing goes if you do something great... You see people here praising EVS and Panasonic USA for no other reason than fantastic support and a positive experience.
 
Isaac_Brody said:
Mike. You didn't just win over any Canadian fans with that comment. If anything you've given Jan and the US even more business. You can't expect people to buy from you when you can't even match some of the great deals being offered in the US. And you can't expect someone to endorse you when they've had nothing but negative experiences.

You haven't given anything to this forum, and you can't expect people to give back to you. Jan has been great with answering questions and listening to our comments and feedback. You've complained that people don't purchase in Canada, you seem to think it's Jarred's fault because of that, but maybe you should be analyzing how you do business.

As an example, people order from Rush at EVS because he's helpful, prompt, and he has great deals for DVXuser. He's built up loyalty on this forum and he's been rewarded with our business. If you think attacking the creator of this forum will get people to order from Panasonic Canada, you're mistaken.

If you want to win producers in Canada I suggest watching Jan and Rush. Their personal contact and help in this forum is something you can learn from.
Click to expand...


I tend to agree. I realize also that the usa has a strong potential customer base by virtue of the large population. When I discovered Panasonic wasn't offering any package deals up here I decided to buy used (albeit from a fellow Canadian). If the locals in vancouver would have included Barry's book and thether stuff I would have jumped right in and bought from a local retailer. i'm tired of getting screwed by high prices on equipment. to counteract that i'd buy from the usa any day, especially if i get some value added in the form of advice, package deals, etc.
Panasonic should be somehow adjusting its pricing to fit the canadian economy and dollar value (maybe they are, i dunno). If i can get decent service i'll go south any day.

earon,
vancouver
(who's about to make a Britek lighting purchase from Tom at rostronics)
 
I'm currious about Canadians crossing the border for DVX, don't you get hit with customs duty tax on your way back? I mean, not only are you paying US taxes at purchase time, but you pay duty tax on you way back. Add to that the fact that the warranty is only valid in the US, and the exchange rate, travel expenses... do you really save that much? Is it really worth the trouble?
 
This morning I woke up and thought about how to get the money for the new HD camera from Panasonic or JVC. And then I decided to sell my Arri Arriflex 16 SR standard 16 mm camera at eBay today. And now it is not mine anymore: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5761821720. What do You think: Was the price okay? And would You call it crazy to sell an Arri for a JVC/Panasonic? Well, just my opinion: Film has gone, video is coming... at least, I hope it.
 
Robert?!?! you got to be serious right?
that's sure a fine camera you sold here.. i appreciate the move, and understand, i must say.
though it make me kind of sad.. for a second or two...
 
Well, because I am a student, I do not see it anymore to pay so much money in 16 mm raw footage, while You can get 60 minutes of DV for just a few cents. Of course, it was a hard step for me to sell the Arri, but it does not make sense to me any longer. Greetings from Berlin to Berlin, shAi.
 
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