Best Way To Use Fresnels?

H

Homunculus

Carbonite Member
Hi everyone. I've been trying to learn the best way to use bigger wattage fresnels like 1k, 2k, etc. In all my tests I've been coming to the realization that direct lighting them towards talent produces way too harsh a light, even with flood light setting. So how is everyone using their fresnels?

Do you EVER shoot them directly at talent or is everyone always bouncing them off something and if so, then what? Is it more common to bounce them off ceilings, walls, or bounce cards, or all of those combined?

And how do you get rid of the common problem when shooting a fresnel directly at talent, that it creates a strong amateurish looking shadow on the wall behind the talent. Is it best to position fresnels up high to avoid this and shoot them down at an angle or is it best to have other lights positioned at 90 degree angles to "fill" the shadows behind the talent to avoid this?

Thanks!
 
you have answered all your questions in your post however you missed off using diffusers that can quite often get rid of most harsh shadows.
 
Remember that all those gorgeous 30's and 40's films and portraits used fresnels, but there was an art to how they were aimed.

For interviews, they can be simply gorgeous hair lights; when shooting daylight, try them without filters (or just a half CTB) for a "sunset" look on hair & shoulders. It's really gorgeous if you can catch a sort of "rim" of cheekbone with them.

For artsy stuff, features, music videos - when you have beautiful faces (usually pro talent) and want unique looks, you can hit faces with them. Oblique angles, straight overhead, etc. can look nice. Also, lighting faces with just the "edge" can be really pretty and evocative.

When using diffused light, you can use fresnels to add a sense of direction to the light, but often you might have them just a half stop higher than your base light; you can really make jewelry sparkle, get a bit of 3d shading, etc. again, just the "rim" of the light circle can be really effective as well.

They're great through silk diffusion flags on a dark set - for MCUs or closeups - when you want one spot of soft light on a face (where a blonde or open face would be too much).

Little 3" units from 150-300 watts are great for really specific lighting, picking out details or textures, etc. I continually have those out.

And finally, a 2K can be really handy outdoors on a cloudy day to get some harder/warmer light (yeah, a 5k would be better, but a 2K's pretty easy to power).

I love fresnels but I've been using them since I was a still shooter to have some different looks than all the softbox shots. You have to play with 'em and make friends.
 
thanks all. how would you add a softbox onto a fresnel though? Is it possible to attach them?


What's the best way to light with fresnels if fresnels are ALL you have though? Instead of softlighting the front and just using fresnels as rims and such from behind or kicker lights, what's the best way of using ONLY fresnels (since that's all I have). Is the main Key fresnel best to be used diffused like through diffusion or bounced backwards off a white board etc?
 
Homunculus said:
thanks all. how would you add a softbox onto a fresnel though? Is it possible to attach them?
Click to expand...

The ones I have seen attach via the gel frame slots. I've never used one. Too expensive for what you get (my opinion). I own some "starlight" type 500 & 1k softboxes - I guess my stills background means I expect a bulb way out into the softbox.


Homunculus said:
What's the best way to light with fresnels if fresnels are ALL you have though? Instead of softlighting the front and just using fresnels as rims and such from behind or kicker lights, what's the best way of using ONLY fresnels (since that's all I have). Is the main Key fresnel best to be used diffused like through diffusion or bounced backwards off a white board etc?
Click to expand...

Bounce and diffusion.

They're both effective. Bounce off a card, bounce off a ceiling or wall. Or diffuse through a silk (either the scrim-frame style), a butterfly frame, or clip fabric to a c-stand boom.

There's no best choice; think about the light you want to achieve - how big of a soft area do you need, and how far from the talent? A wall is often your only choice to get a good, big spread. A ceiling can be the most "natural" bounce there is. I've made rigs with conduit and c-stands & fabric to make a 'softbox' that's ceiling height and 10' wide (with 3 - 5 lights behind it). Roger Deakins (Coen bros.) regularly bounces off unbleached muslin to warm his light up. He says he often runs into a store and buys bedsheets for bounce (he's really not a diffusion guy).

Sometime you need a sheet of toughspun pinned 6" in front of your light before you hit the diffusion... it goes on and on. Again - how big, how bright, how much space do you need & have?

I have 6 x 6 butterfly frames with a "striplight" fabric - 1' wide strip of white down the middle of black velveteen - really handy for moody stuff. You can make softboxes or "bounce boxes" with big sheets of black foamcore.

The great thing is, bouncing and diffusing are two very inexpensive tactics (especially bounce). But I have loads of fabrics from JoAnn that I shoot lights through (don't get too close though). A c-stand with a boom arm and 2 A-clamps and you're there.

I even have hot air balloon fabric for tight corners... be creative.
 
1 c-stand, 1 boom, 2 ft. of tubing, 2 clamps = huge soft light.

I'll usually put 2 light behind something like this (the lights shining through are just wall sconces). If the talent is close, I may add toughspun to the lights, kind of "arc" it out a little for a 1-footish source.

(add a 2nd stand, boom & black fabric to kill spill if necessary - or double that & make a "softbox")

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Hey Michael Carter thanks a lot! I was just going to ask you if you can provide any pics of your setup that you speak of and you did so thanks. I am wondering do you have any videos/footage, or films/shorts that you've done that you can post where I can see that fresnel through diffusion lighting setup in action? Thanks
 
I use this setup a lot for stills and video, with strobes or hot lights.

I don't have anything showing how you point the lights - essentially, you move the lights far enough back so the spread covers as much fabric as possible. If you move them closer, so there's more defined shapes (a circle for a fresnel, maybe a rectangle for open faced), the light will get a little "harder", maybe more shadow definition. You can use two lights, one high & one lower; use a brighter light up top for more "sky" or ceiling weight to the light - try just one light up above eye level.

You might try fresnels with the lenses popped out for bounce/diffusion - they're not doing anything worthwhile in that case.

The real answer is, "play with it" - get fabric that's sheer enough to let light through but not like a mesh.

Understanding broad, soft light seems hard - the farther the source from your subject, the bigger the source needs to be.

The pic below was done using two setups like the one I posted, with the camera in the middle. Usually I'll make one side maybe 20% - 60% brighter so it's not super flat. Sometimes I'll also bounce from the ceiling.

This light can be kind of dull, but it gives talent a lot of room to move and still be in good exposure range. It's not for every situation, but understanding how to get broad & soft is handy - often soft-from-one-side is a good starting point for a natural look.

1284603125.jpg
 
Here's a couple diagrams - first using fresnels or any other "can" type light:

1284658583.gif


But optimally, rectangular open lights are a little better, as you can shape them to fill your fabric. The rectangular fixture with barndoors is a common theater fixture - you can find them used for as low as $10 if you hunt around. L&E and ColorTran make great ones, and they use cheap bulbs available from 100 - 1000 watts, so relamping for various intensities is really easy. I find them to be the most-used fixtures in my kit, and I have six or seven fresnels of various sizes. You can get so many shapes from the beams with the barndoors.

And I've generally found you want to cheat your intensity towards the ceiling; if not, you'll get more highlighting under necks and eyes that won't look natural. (It can be a cool effect though, if you want a "flat" look that's a little off or slightly surreal).

With either type of light, you can also lower your scrim a foot or so, and aim the top light so it's also bouncing from the ceiling - this looks even more natural.

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Here's some footage for you:

Here's a video sample from a recent project for the National Center for PTSD (NCPTSD)...
http://vimeo.com/14040716
(password is "NCPTSDvideo". Case sensitive, no quotes)

We use Arri 650w Fresnel fixtures through Chimera Softboxes (with speedring mounts to fit the gel/barndoor holder frames). The Key is set to flood, and the fill is set to spot, which reduces the output by about 30-40% through the softbox. The hair lights on these subjects were either 150w or 300w fresnel fixtures, depending on how close we could tuck 'em to the subject.

You can see where the lights were placed via the catchlights in the subjects' eyes. Key was over the interviewer, fill was on the opposite side of the camera from where the subject was looking, as was the hair light.
 
That's a great example of where softboxes work well, fairly close in. In my experience, you still need a 2x3 or 3x4 box to keep it soft. I have some 1x2-ish boxes, but I tend to use those for jewelry, beverage, etc.

I watched a friend trying to shoot a full-figure family portrait with two medium softboxes, about 6 feet away - he was like "the light is so hard, but these are softboxes".

The diagrams above are essentially how to create a 5' x 8' softbox, which works well for full-figure shots.

In my last studio I had a conduit rig on the ceiling for hanging diffusion, and I could wrap a set 180 degrees in silk. Not my favorite look, but when clients wanted to shoot, say, a big retail display setup, it made it fast & easy.
 
Yeah, that's the catch with our softboxes... they're 2x3' units, but they've gotta be close (in the clip above they were only 10 feet away from the subject) if you want the light to be soft!

We have a bigger 5x5' scrim that we sometimes use with a pair of 650w Arri fresnels, but it's a PITA to use on-location in tight spaces.
 
Sure 'nuff. Keep in mind, you can use large scrims in some tight spaces if you ditch the frames and drape 'em over a boom - I've seen people use Matthews' scissor clamps to hang them directly from an office ceiling. (If I was in the interview biz, I'd have me some of those clamps!)

An odd side effect - you'd think clients would see just raw fabric and no softboxes or frames and think it's non-professional - but when I do that, they're like, "wow, it's hollywood magic [and I'm in dallas] - just a piece of cloth!"
 
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