Best Under 700 Lav Mic And Do I Need Them?

R

Robertofish

Active member
I am starting production on a live action movie and need good audio however I have a zoom h4n and an Audio Technica AT4053B and Rode NTG-3 With Blimp and Deadcat windmuff (for wind blocking), however depending on the place and where the mic is placed aka close or far away from the subject(s) I can get good, or bad audio or anywhere in between.

So I was wondering if I should get 3 or more (depending on price) lav mics, I was thinking Sennheiser G3 lav system, with an Edioral R-44 Recording system, I could hook in the 3 lavs and the 1 boom mic and record, I could put 1 lav on each main actor depending on the scene and might just use boom for other situations.

I think G3s are 700 a piece which isnt bad especially because I need quality that will match that of my other mics for continuity reasons.

What do I need to run 3 lav mics other then the mics and the Edioral R-44, is there some kind of kit I could buy for it?

Any particular lav mic of quality that you would recommend? Also can I have a link to it as well thanks!

Thanks everyone!
 
I like my Rode lav. Besides the great audio quality, I love the fact that you are not stuck with one plug.
Rode provides several plugs you just screw on, so it´s very versatile for different recorders.

Frank
 
You might want to look at the offerings from Oscar Sound Tech. Basically the equivalent quality of Tram TR50's at one third the price. You can get pretty much any connector for $15 as well. They also offer an adaptable wired solution as well. Really good.
 
Robertofish said:
I am starting production on a live action movie and need good audio however I have a zoom h4n and an Audio Technica AT4053B and Rode NTG-3 With Blimp and Deadcat windmuff (for wind blocking), however depending on the place and where the mic is placed aka close or far away from the subject(s) I can get good, or bad audio or anywhere in between.

So I was wondering if I should get 3 or more (depending on price) lav mics, I was thinking Sennheiser G3 lav system, with an Edioral R-44 Recording system, I could hook in the 3 lavs and the 1 boom mic and record, I could put 1 lav on each main actor depending on the scene and might just use boom for other situations.

Thanks everyone!
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Don't take this the wrong way, but you could still run into getting Good, Bad, or anywhere in between audio, by using lav mics as well.

Sure you could spend $2700 on 3 Sennheiser G3 kits and mics, or you could use the money to hire an audio professional with the proper gear to work your movie.

What's more important to you, buying gear or your movie?

Good Luck!

Dave
 
Would the oscar tech be similar in quality or useable with the NTG-3 and AT4053B As far as continuity, as in is the quality good enough in the oscar mics to not sound bad with the other 2 boom mics, I can do eq correction for lav to boom sounds but I am concerned that the raw quality isnt the same regardless of the eq changes that may come later.

As for hiring an audio professional thats way to expensive especially for a full length movie and multiple other shorts films etc to come in the future, doing it this way means I get to keep the audio equipment and use it for later films.
 
it's an action movie...just make the explosions sound good...

Ok, ok...I kid, but honestly, a lav mic in an action movie is going to give you a very intimate sound. The mic is close (think interview / talking heads type of sound) do you want that? Do you want the sound that comes from the environments of the actresses/actors? If so, you want to use your super cardoid/hyper cardoid more.

Also, if you are getting 'inconsistent' results from your current setup, the first step would be to identify the problem, change what is wrong, then get the consistent results you want. I don't think your equipment is all that 'awful' so you should be able to get consistent results with it technically speaking.

The real question is what are you doing 'wrong' that it is giving you the problem in the first place? Others might argue you can't use this setup for 'good' sound, but I would disagree a little bit, you can probably get 'good' sound, and if you are happy with it when it works, find out what is wrong when it isn't working. Maybe a behind the scene's camera to show where the boom was when the audio wasn't what you wanted? Maybe the location was causing problems with the type of mic you were using, and you were getting to many reflections/echo? Maybe the sound was thin, and you weren't position the mic close enough to the talent?

My .02 cents.
 
I concur with IanB - identify what the problem is. Have you ever done sound editing, or sat by in one, to see how your tracks really sound and is used? If not, you may be surprised as to what is a problem and what isn't.

For me, a lav is rarely a solution, but a backup in case the boom fails on a small portion of the take. This is mostly because I rarely think the lav sound as good as the boom, but sometimes it's also hard to get good clean audio from a lav.
 
Oscar Sound Tech lavs are terrible. They get the job done but post hates them. I'd stick with the usual suspects like Tram, Countryman, Sanken and Sennheiser.
The Oscars also sound a little too thin to my ears when mixing with a boom.
 
The reason that I want lavs is because booms arent perfect, I do get awesome results currently, just with the NTG-3 there is a lot of noise in the background and if one person is to close to the mic, they sound louder, and depending on who I am working with its not always possible to get the mic super close, depending on shots we use, and if they are moviing a lot it can be a problem, so I think if I put a lav on everyone it would sound great more even, the sound from the boom is actually really really good its just that there can be problems that can be solved via lavs, so the solution to me is I will try a few more things but if I were to get a lav(s) which one would you suggest?
 
Let me follow up my comments after more information you have supplied.

It is clear you like the Boom for a lot of situations (a good thing) and it is clear it is not the right tool for other situations. This is described by you in a recent comment. You are 100% correct, there are situations that a Boom is not going to give you the sound you need, however a Lav is really only going to give you 'differant sound' and that means you should rent a few lavs, check out what sound they are giving you in differant situations, and then purchase the one that is giving you what you want. From your post above, an 'even' sound is very difficult to achieve with production sound and differant mics, however in post production, you can even out a lot of things and get the film to sound like you want. The key is to get the sound you want at the beginning.

Like I said, in your situation, (as you are trying to get even sound/matching sound to the ntg-3) you need to perform tests, and understand how a lav is going to affect your ability to capture sound, and give you additional tools when the boom isn't working for you.

Ian
 
cactuskid said:
Oscar Sound Tech lavs are terrible. They get the job done but post hates them. I'd stick with the usual suspects like Tram, Countryman, Sanken and Sennheiser.
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This is contrary to the main stream consensus, including many major league players. You're entitled to your opinion and use whatever you see fit. Your 'thin' sound, could be attributed to many third-party factors, including, 'lav and boom mics sound different' ...fact of life
 
The Sennheiser systems sound great - although the weak link is the cheap mics they come with ME2 v MKE2? no contest. I'd be happy with their electronics anytime - but the old saying we've mentioned before still makes a great deal of sense. An expensive radio mic system is nearly as good as a $10 bit of cable!

I do wish we'd stop referring to the complete system as a 'lav' - that's just the microphone, and we have plenty of lavs that are NOT radio connected.
 
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"Can you point to any comparisons that we can download and evaluate ourselves?"
- I'm not aware of any 'shootouts' that include OST mics.. and I don't have the ambition, or a new Tram to compare too.

"I do wish we would stop referring to the complete system as a 'lav' "
- Yes, but what do you mean "we" paleface. (said Tonto to the Lone Ranger)
 
I've done the Oscar Sound Tech comparisons myself. I work at a Location Sound sales,rental and service store (but i'd prefer not to say which) and I have listened to the full gambit of lavs on multiple occasions and in multiple scenarios. I know of only 1 major player who enjoys them (and I deal with quite a few of them), and no one else will bite. I've had more of those returned due to quality than anything else. I'm beginning to think that their manufacturing methods are producing inconsistencies in terms of quality. I've listened to 2 of each of the varieties that Oscar offers and all were not sonically pleasing, at least not for motion picture, but it may have just been a bad batch. The one major player I know who loves them, absolutely loves them, so maybe he got a good batch?
I'll admit I was a little quick to dismiss them, but with so much bad experience surrounding them, can you really blame me? I do apologize for such a knee-jerk reaction. If what you have pleases you, great. But I'm going to stay as far away from Oscar Sound Tech as possible. The price is alluring but...not alluring enough.

I'll see if I can record a session the next time I do one and I'll post it here. Or at the very least try and track one down and post it.
 
TheDingo said:
...So what's the next best thing ?

A Countryman EMW ? ( doesn't cost much more, and is cheaper than a TRAM 50 )
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I would say that's reasonable. It sounds pretty close to a Tram in my opinion and Countryman has great customer service. The B3 would be the next best Countryman. It has a great sound but is pretty much even with a Tram TR-50 cost-wise.
 
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