Best Ultra-Light Weight video solution

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dustinash

Active member
Hello, this is a very difficult question to answer and i am hoping for as many perspectives as possible. My goal is to have the best possible quality video in the lightest package, must be under 750 grams, ideally under 500 grams. Shallow Depth of Field is not a requirement! Nor is lowlight. But no manual focusing is a requirement

So basicallly it looks like I have three options:

hybrid DSLRs like GH2 or a55: These have good autofocus and solid video quality.

Camcorder: I know the autofocus is superb but I am not sure how much worse the video quality is compared to hybrid dSLRs. Any insight? This is the route im thinking of going.

point and shoot: These also do 1080p video, mostly I would imagaine that autofocus is not creucial because they would be shooting shallowest depth of feild possible for max in focus area. This would also cover cams like GOpro.

Can anyone help me figure out my best option for shooting in a wide variety of light situations again lighter is better and the best possible (even broadcsat quality) video is important. Also such things as being able to fix exposure, ideally both shutter and aperature but.. even just a button to lock it down like a55 will suffice.
 
Take a look at the Panasonic TM700 and SD600K(available only on Amazon). They both produce exactly the same image, have the same lens, etc. The quality is unbelievable..but, it only records in 1080P/60, or, 1080i/60. So, you need a pretty high horsepower computer to edit. If your in PAL land, they also make a 50 version.
Auto-tracking focus works great. Just touch the screen for the object you want tracked, and it does all the work. Low light works great, as well.
Google is your friend. Do a search of both camera's and read the specs and reviews.

Don't contain yourself into thinking DLSR is the only solution. You can get the SD600K, plus a GH1, or GH2, and have the best of both worlds. In fact, you could mount the 600/700 on top of the GH1/2 with a cold shoe tripod mount, and have both in a small package. When you want fast tracking, action type shots, use the 600/700. When you want shallower DOF, 1080P/24(or 720/60), switch on the GH.

That is my "plan". I'll let you know how well it worked, at the end of Spring.

Oh, and I also have 2 Go Pro HD camera's, which I mount on personal watercraft, and the video quality from those is amazing.
 
ya.. the tm700 looks bad ass. plus 60p at 1080? Slow mo's would be fantastic.

"Don't contain yourself into thinking DLSR is the only solution. You can get the SD600K, plus a GH1, or GH2, and have the best of both worlds. In fact, you could mount the 600/700 on top of the GH1/2 with a cold shoe tripod mount, and have both in a small package. When you want fast tracking, action type shots, use the 600/700. When you want shallower DOF, 1080P/24(or 720/60), switch on the GH."

Although this would start to get bulky when also involving audio capture, etc.. the idea is very interesting.
 
dustinash said:
ya.. the tm700 looks bad ass. plus 60p at 1080? Slow mo's would be fantastic.

"Don't contain yourself into thinking DLSR is the only solution. You can get the SD600K, plus a GH1, or GH2, and have the best of both worlds. In fact, you could mount the 600/700 on top of the GH1/2 with a cold shoe tripod mount, and have both in a small package. When you want fast tracking, action type shots, use the 600/700. When you want shallower DOF, 1080P/24(or 720/60), switch on the GH."

Although this would start to get bulky when also involving audio capture, etc.. the idea is very interesting.
Click to expand...

Just remember that the TM700 has an audio/headphone jack, plus cold-shoe mount, the SD600K has none of these.
Also, the sound from the TM700 is 5.1 surround sound, and using an external microphone has proven to not offer any improvement over the existing camera's sound.

You can efficiently, and with great quality, slow the footage down 60%(24fps), and it looks jaw dropping. Search Vimeo for TM700 and watch some of the videos. Also, some are taken right out of the camera and uploaded. Download one of the files, and see how well your system holds up to editing/viewing it.

On a Windows PC, the best player for these files in Windows Media Player Classic(you can google that to download the player). That player utilizes the GPU, and if necessary the CPU to play the video. All other players use the CPU, and some computers are just not fast enough.
 
I watched some vids and I found many of them had blown out highlights. I am not sure if this is because the shooters didnt know how to calibrate their cams, or couldnt get nd filters on it, or whether it may not be capable of manual settings at all.

All in all I never found any really really stellar video. It all seemed to really lack fine resolve. Like using a less then premium lens. If you have any links to jaw dropping vids that would be great.

As for audio... 5.1 that is really neat and could be very useful. As for external mics not providing an improvement in sound quality though. I find that very hard to believe. A decent shotgun mic sells for more then the price of this camcorder.... and there is a reason for that.
 
dustinash said:
I watched some vids and I found many of them had blown out highlights. I am not sure if this is because the shooters didnt know how to calibrate their cams, or couldnt get nd filters on it, or whether it may not be capable of manual settings at all.

All in all I never found any really really stellar video. It all seemed to really lack fine resolve. Like using a less then premium lens. If you have any links to jaw dropping vids that would be great.

As for audio... 5.1 that is really neat and could be very useful. As for external mics not providing an improvement in sound quality though. I find that very hard to believe. A decent shotgun mic sells for more then the price of this camcorder.... and there is a reason for that.
Click to expand...
All I'm telling you about external mikes it, they were tested on another forum, a bunch of different, expensive mikes, and none of them was a significant enough improvement over the stock microphone, to make that much of a difference.
If sound is important, go with the H4n, or some other complete solution.

As far as lacking fine detail; that is probably lost in the "codec crusher" that You Tube or Vimeo use. Did you download the original files? I don't know which ones you looked at(there are 100's on Vimeo).
But, the bottom line is this; how much do you want to spend, and, is 1080/60P important to you?? Because really, that's the only "flavor" they deliver, so you will have to edit from that.

You an get ND filters on it(I've used ND3+ND6 together with a 43mm to 52mm step-up ring).
I see a lot of guys getting "wrapped around the axle" pixel peeping different camera's to death. If you don't have a camera now, what different does it make?? Your not shooting anything right now. Also; are you just going to be posting them on the internet?? If so, any $300 or less camcorder that has 720P/30 will work just fine.

A camera is just a tool. It's how you use it that makes the difference. I've seen some pretty crappy videos' from a Sony EX3.....and some pretty phenomenal video's from a $200 Go Pro HD camera.
Content is the king here. 99% of your viewers are not pixel peepers, and while you may see blown out highlights, they may see them to, but could care less, as long as the content is good.
Don't spend all your time making "comparison" or "test" videos'. Nobody cares.
Buy a camera, and test it out. Make sure you buy somewhere that has a 30-day return policy, and if it's not for you, return it.

I liked this one;
 
Ya.. no... its not about pixel peeping. I do have a cam. I have a GH2. but I need both a b cam and for most projects I need footage of a particular calibre both for artistic and commercial reasons. On that basis I will always prefer to skrimp and save for the component I need.

That video you posted does show nice clarity and the lighting is been well handled either via ND or just the way the cam shoots. The footage looks clean, I do love the 60fps in 1080 thats amazing and it looks light and fast focusing plus its got a leica lens. :P

Audio.. well having 5.1 audio capture is a nice little perk. If it is as good as your suggesting that may well have its uses. Plus the cam corder has a built in intravelometer.

Do you know if this cam corder has manual controls for shutter/aperatue/iso/white balance?

Also they just brought out an updated version.. the TM900... do you think its worth waiting for that to hit the market?
All in all I think it is a great suggestion and probably the perfect compliment to a GH2
 
The updated versions are exactly the same lens/chipset/video quality is what is out there now. The only change is minor firmware for 3D, and maybe larger storage.
The TM700(32gb built-in flash drive)$749, and HS700K(240gb built-in hard drive)$799, are identical except for storage solutions. Once again-google is your friend for specs, etc. Both have full manual control of everything.
The SD600K has no built-in memory, but still has full manual control. Except, you have to use the touch screen LCD instead of turning the ring around the lens(it doesn't have one)to adjust the settings. It also only has 2-channel stereo, no mike out, or headphone out, and no cold shoe.

I would not wait for the new models. They do have slightly higher resolution LCD screens, but so what. Why spend an extra $200+ dollars on something you don't need.
 
I think there may be something more. They also stated they put in a new processor that gives 40% better low light performance over prior models. More processing power usually equates to better video in other respects (less moire/aliasing)...

Google is more then my friend its my oracle.. but research takes time and its nice to hear other researchers oppinions. A lot of the fine detail is absolutely lost in review sites. How many review sites tell you that GH2 has no headphone jack or that line in is 2.5mm? maybe 1 in 10.
 
dustinash said:
I think there may be something more. They also stated they put in a new processor that gives 40% better low light performance over prior models. More processing power usually equates to better video in other respects (less moire/aliasing)...

Google is more then my friend its my oracle.. but research takes time and its nice to hear other researchers oppinions. A lot of the fine detail is absolutely lost in review sites. How many review sites tell you that GH2 has no headphone jack or that line in is 2.5mm? maybe 1 in 10.
Click to expand...

Well, you can wait another two months for the new model(s), and spend another 2 or 3 hundred dollars...your choice. The low light performance on the series that are available now(3mos-1080/60P) doesn't suck. You just have to determine what is important to you, and what is not, and, how much you want to spend.
I returned my TM700(which I bought at $749, and bought the HS700K for $795). I like that it has 240gb of memory...but, what I like better is that the cold shoe is mounted on top of the camera, and doesn't require the stupid adapter that slides in on the side of the camera.

Get one of those, and a GH1/2 for low light, and your set. Mount one on top of the other with a tripod/cold-shoe mount, and I think you'll have it covered.

I did a ton of research before buying(and re-buying), and saw no need to wait 2+ months for a "supposed" 40% increase in low light performance. Who cares.....I wouldn't use it that way anyways. I use it in broad daylight for sports, so I can slow it down by 60%(60 frames down to 24 frames), for slow motion. Works great.
It's not like it's an expensive camera or anything. Your talking less than a grand.....and the stabilization works great. Most of the time, I use a mono-pod, but can do just as good without.

I already knew about the "shortcomings" of the GH2.....and the stupidly long wait times to get one. Don't need it right now, and when I do need one, I'm sure they will be for sale used somewhere.

Oh, one more thing; the 1080/60P camera's I was talking about, all have tracking auto-focus. Just touch the LCD screen on the object you want to track, and it instantly locks on, and stays locked. It's 3mos...it is what it is...it does a good job of what it's supposed to do.
 
Your reccomendations have been very helpful and I tend to concur with the logic. The little perks like super slo mo and timelapse alone are worth the money. Sure it lacks shallow dof but thats what my gh2 is for! Your concept of mounting the cam on top of the gh2 is a really intersting idea! I think its cool you shoot with monopod. That is the route I will be going for run and gun with a switchable head for hopping onto sliders/tripod. Just... so.. much.. money...

So back to an older question... do you know if it has manual wb, aperature, shutterspeed and iso?
 
dustinash said:
Your reccomendations have been very helpful and I tend to concur with the logic. The little perks like super slo mo and timelapse alone are worth the money. Sure it lacks shallow dof but thats what my gh2 is for! Your concept of mounting the cam on top of the gh2 is a really intersting idea! I think its cool you shoot with monopod. That is the route I will be going for run and gun with a switchable head for hopping onto sliders/tripod. Just... so.. much.. money...

So back to an older question... do you know if it has manual wb, aperature, shutterspeed and iso?
Click to expand...

Yes, it has manual everything, if you want it. However, on the 600, you have to use the touchscreen to do the adjustments. With the others, you can switch between them, and rotate the lens ring. Also, the 600 only has the flip-out LCD for viewing, and when you close it, the camera shuts off. With the other two, they have a viewfinder you can look through with the LCD closed to save on battery life, and also when the sun is behind you. However, the resolution in the viewfinder sucks, bad.....it's fine for framing your shots, but that's it. You can't use it to manually focus.

Also remember that the one with the built-in hard drive can be susceptible to shock/heat/humidity/altitude......it's got a hard drive, just like a computer, so you need to treat it well. I have a JVC HD camcorder that has a built in hard drive. Had it for a couple of years now, and have never had a problem with it. That's why I chose the hard drive model. Plus, your clips don't get split every 4gb(fat-32 limit). It makes it nice to have 10 hours of recording time, and not have to worry about swapping cards or downloading anything.
However, it will really suck, hard, if the hard-drive crashes.
But, I can make enough money with one shoot of the camera, to throw it in the trash when I'm done.
 
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