from my (limited) experience editing with these clips, it seems newer computers should be able to play back the clips ok (either just to view or in the timeline) but once you start making cuts they will stall or drop frames at the edits. my uneducated guess is that this has to do with the codec needing to reference the other frames and it gets confused when the next frame is from a totally different shot (because it uses p-frames). I'm not sure dvcpro hd should be considered that great a codec either though as it is not really a full sized hd (something like 960 x 720 for 720p and 1440 x 1080 for 1080p).
best system to watch and edit native 5d2
- Thread starter enginyr
- Start date
saneproductions
Veteran
You are correct that DVC PRO HD is not full raster (960x720 in 720p mode or 1440x1080 in 1080p mode). That doesn't mean that it is not a great acquisition/edit format. HD CAM, which is much more expensive is not full raster either. In order to get a professional mastering tape format that is full raster, you need to use D5 which is WAY more expensive!
DVC Pro HD uses 422 color space which means that the footage looks much more rich than stuff shot on say HDV which has half the color information. DVC PPRO HD also uses independent frames, not i-frame so motion is much better. DVC PRO HD also uses 100Mb/s which is 3x the bitrate of the 5D or 7D and as we know less compression = better image. The other thing DVC PRO HD has going for it is that it has been around for a long time and is widely supported by edit systems. it is not very processor intensive and renders fast. SO what are you talking about exactly?
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
saneproductions... just a few notes.
1. DVCProHD is 960x720 or 1280x1080.
2. DVCProHD is 4:2:2 but it's 4:2:2 on a sample size of 1280x1080, not 1920x1080. And that makes a difference. It still bests 4:2:0 on 1920x1080, but the difference isn't nearly as big as things might seem.
3. DVCProHD is indeed supported by many NLEs Natively, and that is definitely a good thing
4. DVCProHD is 100Mbit and while that has merit, it's intra-frame codec demands more bandwidth. So a codec like HDCam 422 at 50Mbps is going to look nearly the same as DVCProHD with slightly better color sampling and half the bitrate (file size). It's a bit harder on the CPU but only marginally. Something like XDCamHD 50 is also 4:2:2 but on the full raster, and should like noticeably better than DVCProHD in many conditions.
Thanks.
1. DVCProHD is 960x720 or 1280x1080.
2. DVCProHD is 4:2:2 but it's 4:2:2 on a sample size of 1280x1080, not 1920x1080. And that makes a difference. It still bests 4:2:0 on 1920x1080, but the difference isn't nearly as big as things might seem.
3. DVCProHD is indeed supported by many NLEs Natively, and that is definitely a good thing
4. DVCProHD is 100Mbit and while that has merit, it's intra-frame codec demands more bandwidth. So a codec like HDCam 422 at 50Mbps is going to look nearly the same as DVCProHD with slightly better color sampling and half the bitrate (file size). It's a bit harder on the CPU but only marginally. Something like XDCamHD 50 is also 4:2:2 but on the full raster, and should like noticeably better than DVCProHD in many conditions.
Thanks.
ROCKMORE
Veteran
What are the components in your Acer 8940g i7 that makes it run so smoothly? Sounds like it works well for you right out of the box.
I'm putting together a list for Quadcore PC desktop this week and looking for component suggestions. (Specific components)
(I use PC because all my projects incorporate 3dsmax CGI and Mac doesn't support it.)
Jackson Miller
Well-known member
Perrone Ford - Holy cow you know a lot about codecs!
I have a couple questions:
1) What are some good options for an intermediate codec for editing on FCP then?
2) How big are DNxHD files compared to prores and XDcamHD files (what I use now)?
3) Since these files are so big, what do you all do with the footage from previous projects? Do you just buy a buttload of external HDs?
I have a couple questions:
1) What are some good options for an intermediate codec for editing on FCP then?
2) How big are DNxHD files compared to prores and XDcamHD files (what I use now)?
3) Since these files are so big, what do you all do with the footage from previous projects? Do you just buy a buttload of external HDs?
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
Not really. I've just been around this stuff a while.
ProRes (HQ, LT, Proxy, 444, Normal) Depending on need.
ProRes was derived from DNxHD.
ProResHQ = DNxHD 220x.
ProRes = DNxHD 175x (if memory serves). Might be DNxHD 145 (bit in 10 bit).
ProResLT = DNxHD 115 (but in 10 bit)
ProRes Proxy = DNxHD 36 (but in 10bit).
The new ProRes 444 has no equivalent yet in DNxHD.
XDCamHD is 50Mbps. Just a bit larger than the proxy format in DNxHD/ProRes.
Some see these files as big, others see them as very small. Depends on where you are coming from. They are intermediate files. Suitable for editing. Not necessarily designed for archiving. You could well save your original files, and your project sources since they are MUCH smaller, and you could archive that.
I archive to BluRay. Others archive to HDD which I am afraid of. Others archive to tape. Options like LTO tape are excellent, but a bit pricey. Depends on what you're after.
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
The voices tell me to continue... LOL!
saneproductions
Veteran
Thanks for the correction! All of that was off the top of my head and I am a bit fuzzy
I will say that it is very very nice to work with!
Should I be transcoding to XDCam HD 50 instead of ProRes? I have heard it transcodes much faster.
Mike
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I just built an Intel i7 computer for $900. Used my old case and power supply (650watt) that also had the DVD burner. Overclocked to 3.8ghz. Solid as a rock.
Using GrassValley Edius. The fastest editor I've ever used. And I've used everthing. No rendering. BUT, you need to encode the 5D footage for proper black and white level. Also, the encoding with let you edit faster with FX,,and saving the project in the Edius HQ format will keep the video quality very high. So, if you need to re-edit or whatever, you'll have high quality 4:2:2 video to work with.
My 5D footage looks great. I use Cineform for the encoding. When you use Procoder 3, you'll have many settings for the Cineform codec. With the proper settings, you can bring back the shadow and highlight detail.
The best setup I've ever worked with for the money. Including Macs, which I have custom built for some government agencies. In fact, I loaded up Bootcamp and installed the Edius demo, and they we're blown away with the speed.
JohnnyD
Using GrassValley Edius. The fastest editor I've ever used. And I've used everthing. No rendering. BUT, you need to encode the 5D footage for proper black and white level. Also, the encoding with let you edit faster with FX,,and saving the project in the Edius HQ format will keep the video quality very high. So, if you need to re-edit or whatever, you'll have high quality 4:2:2 video to work with.
My 5D footage looks great. I use Cineform for the encoding. When you use Procoder 3, you'll have many settings for the Cineform codec. With the proper settings, you can bring back the shadow and highlight detail.
The best setup I've ever worked with for the money. Including Macs, which I have custom built for some government agencies. In fact, I loaded up Bootcamp and installed the Edius demo, and they we're blown away with the speed.
JohnnyD
ROCKMORE
Veteran
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Way I think about it is that H.264 is one of those tiny clutches women take out with them, great for carrying stuff in a tiny package, but impossible to actually get anything out of unless you take the whole thing apart and repack it, which takes an age.
PR422 is a big handbag, lots of space, more difficult to harry around and heavy too, but if you want something it's super easy to open it up and grab it asap.
Sometimes the missus wants the little clutch, sometime she wants the purse...
(Either way I'll use my pockets. What is that, xd cam?)
PR422 is a big handbag, lots of space, more difficult to harry around and heavy too, but if you want something it's super easy to open it up and grab it asap.
Sometimes the missus wants the little clutch, sometime she wants the purse...
(Either way I'll use my pockets. What is that, xd cam?)
Yes, any of those will work. I have a i7 920, sometimes it's on sale for $199. http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0302727
The boards for the 900 series are more expensive, so it's kind of a toss up. Pay less for the 920 with the more expensive board, or the 800 series which uses a cheaper board.
Overclocking the i7 on air is easy. Some of my software sees 8 virtual cores on the i7
JohnnyD
ROCKMORE
Veteran
What speed is your main board, and how many gigs of memory are you running?
GrassValley Edius / This sounds good too. I've been running CS4 for the last year and it does the job, but just OK. I'm looking for a change. Are you running Edius on Windows, what version? 32 / 64 bit?
Thanks
My board can run at different speeds. The buss speed is overclocked around 1550. I have 4 gigs of ram. I'm running XP pro 32 bit. Next month, I will change to Windows 7 64 bit. There are guy's that are running Vista 64 bit with no problems, but the new Windows 7 is alot better. I'll probably add 8 more gigs of ram.
GrassValley has a good demo of Edius http://www.grassvalley.com/desktop
Check it out. Really fast.
JohnnyD
saneproductions
Veteran
If you want to build a cmputer you should go to the forums at hardocp.com and poke around the general hardware section. Once you get some info, make a post in the section in which you answer the questions about your needs (questions in the stickies).
I would recc a
Windows 7 64 bit
core i7 920
coolermaser v8 CPU cooler
asus p6t deluxe v2 motherboard
coolermaster haf 932 case
corsair 750 watt power supply
evga gtx 260 graphics card (for cuda and cs4)
intel x25m 80gb ssd for boot
two western digital 640gb "black edition" Sata hard drives
and a samsung DVD burner
12gb matched set of ddr3 1600 ram
I built a rig like this for a friend who runs cs4 and it launches Photoshop in 3 seconds.
I have two rigs like this for gaming too, but I edit in fcp strictly nowadays.
I would recc a
Windows 7 64 bit
core i7 920
coolermaser v8 CPU cooler
asus p6t deluxe v2 motherboard
coolermaster haf 932 case
corsair 750 watt power supply
evga gtx 260 graphics card (for cuda and cs4)
intel x25m 80gb ssd for boot
two western digital 640gb "black edition" Sata hard drives
and a samsung DVD burner
12gb matched set of ddr3 1600 ram
I built a rig like this for a friend who runs cs4 and it launches Photoshop in 3 seconds.
I have two rigs like this for gaming too, but I edit in fcp strictly nowadays.
ROCKMORE
Veteran
I also have been running XP pro 32 bit with 4 gigs of ram.
Vista I passes on and stuck with XP 32bit waiting for the next generation to come along. (Ain't broke don't fix it is the best choice sometimes)
I'll be looking forward to see if Windows 7 64 bit solves the problems.
ROCKMORE
Veteran
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saneproductions
Veteran
If you need to scale down, go with a core i5 system with no SSD boot drive. Seriously ask the hardocp.com gurus. They can save you a bundle.
Whatever you do, look closly at the requirements of your edit software.
ROCKMORE
Veteran
I'll check them out for reference, but I'm in West Java Indonesia, everything I get here is out of Jakarta.
Prices are cheap here as well so I think the i7 2.8 is in the budget. I have a lot of hard drives and memory cards around I can recycle, so all the money will go to the processor, mainboard, and VGA card.
I'm still open for any good suggestions while I shop around.
Thanks
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