Best Shotgun mic for use with voice and a guitar amp

J

Jeremy_Sawatzky

Well-known member
I shoot guitar lessons. Here is one of them. - We are tired of using lapel mics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jat_8Aakd-g&feature=c4-overview&list=UUE-X1femHQBzBq_gA_4Phag

We are looking into replacing the lapel setup with a permanent shotgun microphone, mounted on the ceiling forward and above our subjects head about 1 foot in both directions.

The room is soundproofed with very little background noise, if any coming from the amp crackling or a desktop computer fan.


The biggest problem is the actual guitar playing. The amp for the guitar is setup in the corner about 3 feet behind and 6 feet to the left of the subject. We run it at a low volume as the lapel mic picks up quite a bit of the sound.

This in itself isnt a huge deal, when i mix the lapel and the guitar amp mic, we get a decent mix as you hear in the video. But more separation is better.

Which Shotgun mic would you guys recommend for use in this environment?

I have looked a the Rode NTG-3. Its pretty much at the top of our price range. But looks like it has excellent sound quality

Thanks guys
 
I think the Rode will be great to boom mic him but I'd put an Shure SM57 right up on the amp and mix them Given you can get pretty close to him you might want to use a hyper to boom him. I have the audix SCX1/HC. You could isolate them further that way and the guitar would be nice and fat
 
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Two mics would be better: one for voice, one on the amp. Keep the lav on him, or move to a headset mic for better separation (mic closer to the mouth = higher voice:background ratio). You could even try a dynamic headset mic. Keep a dynamic on the amp. Mix the two as needed in post.

The SM57 is kind of a tired, old go-to for amps. Personally, I much prefer the ElectroVoice Raven. If you can find a used one in good condition, or a good deal on NOS, the Raven sounds sweet on electric guitar amps.

Side note: it's bad enough when the instructor rambles in such a manner as to confuse the viewer... but this guy keeps getting himself confused. Fascinating.
 
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Alex H. said:
Side note: it's bad enough when the instructor rambles in such a manner as to confuse the viewer... but this guy keeps getting himself confused. Fascinating.
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Wow I decided to watch the video after reading your comment and wow..
my brain is numb.
He actually spent 4 minutes showing 6 notes. Wow. Just. Wow.
 
Yea this is definitely not one of his best videos. He is definitely an odd fellow to deal with. But I just do as I am told.

I should have been more clear, we do run 2 separate mics. One for voice, one for guitar. I am looking to replace the one for voice as the wireless lapel is unneeded in a permanent stable studio environment.

I want a shotgun mic that will collect less of the guitar than the lapel does.
 
I would perhaps take a different direction on the whole situation...

Why not use a DI on the guitar feed that way the amp can be on the very minimum level giving much better isolation from the speaking mic?
Why do you wish to mic from overhead when the person looks down when he speaks.... If you wanted to go a shotgun mic it would be better on a short stand / boom arm looking up from just under the guitar neck facing upward just out of camera shot. A hypercardioid mic may be better than a shotgun mic.
 
Another issue to consider weighing against a shotgun in this application is the tightness of the 'gun's pattern. With a permanently mounted mic the subject's movement will have to be extremely limited or his voice will continually go on- and off- mic.
 
You are far better off with two mics and a lav on the presenter and an SM57 etc on the guitar amp, the amp should be behind the player and his body should shield the lav from the amp but angling it away from the presenter will also help. I suspect you have the lav gain too high to pick up the guitar amp now so adding a second mic and controlling the sound more should help. Just adding a shotgun will actually make it worse as you will actually have the presenter mic further away.

You may not even need a mixer as you could record split track with the lav on one channel and the guitar mic on the other and then edit the results together in post and balance them out there to get the best mix.

To be honest I just listened to the sound on the video and it is not bad and I think adding a shotgun would not make it much better and if anything worse, what I would do though is turn the lav mic upside down as he is breathing down it. I hope it is an omni lav as a cardioid is not the best to use.

It also needs some high end sparkle to the lav as the sound is unbalanced with the guitar nice a bright and the presenter sounding slightly muffled. You could also try putting a guitar combo on the floor behind the player and angle it upwards so he can hear it but using the main part of his body to shield the sound from the lav.
 
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Thanks for the advice guys. We do record to 2 separate channels then balance it later. I will try turning the lav mic upside down (we bought another lav to replace our burnt out unit.) I guess the shotgun is not the best way to go.
 
Any mic other than a lav will pick up more of the guitar. The lav as the closest to the presenter's mouth, and his body will block the amp. Even with a lav's omni pattern, it's still better due to it's proximity to the mouth, also, the lav being behind the guitar you get less of that unamplified string plunking in thevocal track. The only thing better would be a headset mic so you can turn it down even more. But if you're really serious about audio taking precedence, just don't have the amp in the shot. Put it further away and aim it away from the mic. Or put up an amp you're not playing through if you need one for aesthetics.
 
Dermot said:
why not run the guitar straight from a di to the recorder, if the lesson is not about tone, there's little need to have the amp on

I used this back when i was playing electric guitar in the studio, but i would be sure he has his own choice of di box, there's tons of them;
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Out_of _Production/V-Twin/v-twin.html

d
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A good high clean guitar amp will generally, to most people, sound much better than any distortion pedal. That's not objective though, but rarely will you hear a metal band that recorded with a distortion pedal as their main tone.

I played a Blackstar ID in guitar center, and for a modeling amp it sounded really great. The Fender Mustang and Peavey Vypyr are good cheap amps that will most likely blow the Randall away.
 
For what it's worth, I think the 180 degree rotation would solve the occasion al popping problem as Gary said, and leave the rest alone. I cannot see a shotgun improving that at all - far from it - it would probably make it worse, because the balance is fine. However we need to really get him to pack in the attempt at his liking fo0r calling things inverted minor thirds - which he says dozens of times. In these videos, playing the thing at playing speed at the start is always the way to keep viewers, because if you're already good and hear a great lick, you stay with the video no matter how poor, but at his pace, you would waste ages getting to the end and thinking, as I did - that really wasn't;t worth waiting for.

For what it's worth saying minor or Major third is a bi6 pointless, music theory wise, because the Major or minor labelling of a chord is always linked to the third, so saying minor doesn't need third. Few guitar players would EVER refer to C Major as Am6 - that's just the relative minor. Every lesson one guitarist learns C - so why would you try to call it Am6? It is, of course, if the context is right. Here, it isn't. This 7 minute video is actually a quick 2 minute one - and who actually cares what the chords are called? Each one is two notes - the two notes are spaced at a 6, or a minor 3rd. This is where his theory is right - the interval is a minor 3rd, which if you invert is is a 6 - but this really is not talking about chords - it just sounds like it is. What a mess. However - it looks great, and sounds really good. Just get the guys script and delivery sorted.

Whenever I shoot this kind of thing for a client, I always ask if they want to know what I think, and they say yes so you break the ice by down skilling yourself a bit, and in this case, I'd have just have said - you lost me on that, I think I got the wrong end of the stick. This focuses their mind to explain better - they may think you musically challenged, but if the cameraman doesn't;t understand it, the audience won't either, so you just need courage.

I just did one that involved industrial chemicals resented by the company MD. I asked between takes if the audience were all skilled in the chemical stuff. He said of course not, they're customers. I told him that I got confused at the Benz-di something or other that rendered bio-di sulphur something unnecessary. The light went on. Do you think it's too complicated for ordinary people? Well, I said, my wife's works in a pharmacy and I think she'd struggle.
 
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