Michael_Richard
Active member
Client wants the raw footage. What is the best mode out of the camera. I don't want to hand off flat footage because I don't know how they are going to edit or color correct.
GH5 Best shooting mode if you are just handing off footage GH5
- Thread starter Michael_Richard
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Cary Knoop
Veteran
Ask the client.
Presently I prefer HLG over V-Log as the best mode.
Presently I prefer HLG over V-Log as the best mode.
ozmorphasis
Well-known member
You need to check with your client. Ask them if they wanted the flattest, log-like footage for grading. If they look at you like your speaking in a foreign language, then you know you need to bake in a look. I wouldn't assume. I do have some clients that want the flattest profile I can give them. I use to give one client Cine D when shooting on the GH4, and now I give them V-Log because that's what they want. I also give them a technical V-Log to rec709 lut as a starting point.
The safest bet though is to go with Natural with contrast, sharpness, and NR dialed all the way down. I reduce saturation to -1 as well, but you can leave that at zero. I find CineD to be a bit wonky on skin, and especially with mixed temp lighting, so I avoid it these days for the most part.
HLG can be good too, but again, make sure the client wants it and that they have access to a good starting point LUT if they want that as well.
As others have already stated, determine what the client really wants, either directly or indirectly. The best way to ask this question is never in the affirmative; for instance don't say "Do you want LOG footage?", because they will just say yeah, ashamed of seeming to not to know the fine details of the craft. I'd ask the question like "You don't want LOG footage, do you?", because now if they do truly understand what that is, they will be able to state yes with a reason. But if they don't, they will take your professional lead and say something like "What do you suggest?". Then you can give some examples of the uses of the various deliverable options you can provide, BUT MAKE THIS LIST CONCISE OR THEY WILL ASK YOU FOR EVERYTHING YOU OFFER!!!
Jim Feeley
Veteran
I'm totally with you on not inadvertently promoting a particular answer (and also on not presenting way too options), but I go a step further to prompt a (hopefully brief) discussion. Along the lines of, "Do you want HLG, V-Log, or do you prefer another mode?" That way I minimize forcing an answer, and the client (hopefully) answers "let me check with post (or someone)" or "here's what we want, or "what do you recommend?" Also: I'd avoid suggesting Natural since some less techy clients might think you mean, "do you want natural-looking footage or a baked-in stylized look?"
To be clear: I don't (currently) own a GH5, but I've worked with footage from it...and I've placed this sort of question to clients a zillion times.
Bern Caughey
Veteran
I only deliver raw footage shot in V-Log, or Natural, & like ozmorphasis find Cine-D skintones can sometimes go wonky.
HLG looks promising but since it’s a relatively new standard I’m not comfortable delivering it as raw footage without being sure the post pipeline can handle it properly.
HLG looks promising but since it’s a relatively new standard I’m not comfortable delivering it as raw footage without being sure the post pipeline can handle it properly.
joe12south
Veteran
While I really like shooting with HLG for my personal stuff, I would DEFINITELY not deliver it without asking first. It's not REC709, it's not LOG. There is no standard workflow for working with it, and no outlet for it un-manipulated other than, well, basically, just YouTube.
I would second the advice that you ask, and barring any useful information, shoot Natural, -5 S, -5 NR. That's about the safest option for universal delivery today.
I would second the advice that you ask, and barring any useful information, shoot Natural, -5 S, -5 NR. That's about the safest option for universal delivery today.
Cary Knoop
Veteran
There is a difference between recording in a format and the delivery of another format, one could easily record in HLG but deliver in V-Log (not V-Log-L !), although it would not be "raw" output.
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fboonzaier
Well-known member
Completely agreed...handing off footage to me implies the cards come out of the camera and go to the client and in that case Natural would be my choice, unless they specify they are going to use a colorist/grader in which case I would choose VlogL over CineD....although I also use CineD, I always do it combined with Leeming's LUT....otherwise I don't like the skin tones....there's no telling what happens to the footage after your hand off, so VLogL then seems to be the next and safest choice
Thomas Smet
Veteran
Yeah I would be very careful handing off V-log or HLG. Even when people say they can handle it chances are they don't handle it correctly. There are a ton of people out there that think they know what to do with v-log but really don't.
You need to be absolutely 100% certain a "skilled" colorist will touch the material if handing off flat material. Even if a client asks for it you still need to worry if they even know what that means or if they just heard it on the internets because 99% of film makers want flat and they are the vocal minority.
Handing a card direct from the camera to a client requires thinking in the lowest common denominator unless it is a must to have log or a flat profile. We can't think the way we would want it because depending on the skill level of the editor or colorist if there is even one could greatly affect that clients impression of what you shot. That could mean they think its garbage because their guy can't deal with it properly. Not only does that hurt the client but it hurts you as well because it means no repeat work. Outside of dramatic pieces video tends to go more towards the accurate color side of the spectrum and Natural gets you very close to that. Some editors may even prefer to have that baked in look because they don't want to fart around with grading very much at all. It is never safe to assume anything when it comes to a client because it could jeopardize your future working relationship with that client.
Considering the OP immediately stated they don't want a flat profile I'm kind of surprised so many right away suggested exactly that. They have a better understanding of their client than we do and if they have even a hint that flat would confuse the client than it should be avoided like the plague.
Natural is the most, well, natural looking profile and is likely the safest direction.
It might be good to show the client a sample of how Natural looks so they can tell you if thats what they want. Again don't just assume because we said its the most balanced that it is the look the client is looking for. If they hired you based on some of your existing material how was that material shot? Chances are they hired you because they liked what they saw and if thats the case thats the look they may be expecting.
You need to be absolutely 100% certain a "skilled" colorist will touch the material if handing off flat material. Even if a client asks for it you still need to worry if they even know what that means or if they just heard it on the internets because 99% of film makers want flat and they are the vocal minority.
Handing a card direct from the camera to a client requires thinking in the lowest common denominator unless it is a must to have log or a flat profile. We can't think the way we would want it because depending on the skill level of the editor or colorist if there is even one could greatly affect that clients impression of what you shot. That could mean they think its garbage because their guy can't deal with it properly. Not only does that hurt the client but it hurts you as well because it means no repeat work. Outside of dramatic pieces video tends to go more towards the accurate color side of the spectrum and Natural gets you very close to that. Some editors may even prefer to have that baked in look because they don't want to fart around with grading very much at all. It is never safe to assume anything when it comes to a client because it could jeopardize your future working relationship with that client.
Considering the OP immediately stated they don't want a flat profile I'm kind of surprised so many right away suggested exactly that. They have a better understanding of their client than we do and if they have even a hint that flat would confuse the client than it should be avoided like the plague.
Natural is the most, well, natural looking profile and is likely the safest direction.
It might be good to show the client a sample of how Natural looks so they can tell you if thats what they want. Again don't just assume because we said its the most balanced that it is the look the client is looking for. If they hired you based on some of your existing material how was that material shot? Chances are they hired you because they liked what they saw and if thats the case thats the look they may be expecting.
fboonzaier
Well-known member
+1 above and I would also add that just taking a card out of the camera and handing it off, would be dangerous under any circumstances...that probably means you should bill for/request the time to review and back up all the footage, as proof of what you handed off as well as insurance in case someone down the line screws something up with your original footage.
I do work for a local Cable TV station, and always back up my shoots when I hand off the original out of camera footage. I have a small SSD I use to copy footage to to give to the client, and back up the original SDs to my computer afterwards. There are some nice back up Devices, that can record directly from the SD card without a computer, to use in the field.
If something can go wrong, it will.
Cheers
If something can go wrong, it will.
Cheers
This is the reason I love the GH5/GH5S's dual record mode. I always have a copy, so even when a client wants cards at the end of the day, I have backups!