Best platform for Avid

Don't give me too much credit. I made him help me paint the house this summer to help pay for some of this! Also, we are encouraging him to try and get a few money-making "gigs" - he already has one bar mitzvah lined up for the fall.

He has been into this for 4 years. He will spend hours writing scripts. Every school project somehow ends up as an AV production. He lives and breathes movies and movie making. My wife and feel badly when he spends his time on a project and the image quality is poor because of our camera or he can't do something that he wants to do because of our NLE system. He really is a good kid and deserve better than what he currently has.

RE the Avid specs for recommended PC's - can you hang any drives off of the controller cards on those systems or are they specific about that, too?
 
RE the Avid specs for recommended PC's - can you hang any drives off of the controller cards on those systems or are they specific about that, too?
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Avid specs can get pretty specific. Esspecially if you're going with a Mojo on that system. A lot of the issue comes down to bus segments on the motherboard. Unfortunatly most motherboards assign one bus to all PCI slots which creates a huge bottleneck. So if you have a PCI controller card for Hard drives, and a PCI firewire card plugged in then you're protentially setting yourself up for a headache.

If by "controller cards" you're meaning the motherboard's built-in IDE or SATA controllers (or SCSI for that matter) then you'll be OK because those controllers have a seperate bus. Clear as mud? :laugh: If your son is going to be working in resolutions higher than DV, then you'll probably need to look at RAID storage as well. If DV25 is what he's working with now, then your basic 7200 RPM IDE or SATA drive will be fine.

If you're not buying an Avid Qualified machine (read Dell Precision 670 or HP xw8200) then you'll need to be pretty technically savvy to keep Avid happy on the machine. I know it's a heck of a lot cheaper to build your own box, but by paying the extra you're really achieving stability. Still, I'm stubborn and have built a handful of Avid machines and have rarely had problems. If you'd like some specifics for a roll your own Avid, PM me.

Chris
 
Thanks, I will PM you.

I checked out the DIY 2 CPU model at VideoGuys - however, I wondered how intensively they actually test their confiuration with Avid. I get worried when we are talking about specific serial numbers on CPU's for compatibility. I feel comfortable building PC's (I've been doing mine from the beginning of time - try a 4 bit "CPU" in the seventies to do process control in college) but it continues to get harder to keep up with.

Our current system has an Adaptec UltraSCSI RAID controller with which I'm running 2 75GB drive at RAID 0. However, the prices on these drives have not come down and I understand that SATA RAID 0 is probably adequate for this level of video processing. Has that been your experience?
 
I checked out the DIY 2 CPU model at VideoGuys - however, I wondered how intensively they actually test their confiuration with Avid.
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I've never personally delt with Videoguys, but I've talked to people who have and they've been pleased with their service and quality. My understanding is that they stand by their systems, so if you have a problem then you call Videoguys instead of Avid. That's a nice level of protection.

I understand that SATA RAID 0 is probably adequate for this level of video processing. Has that been your experience?
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For SD, certainly. For HD Avid recommends a minimum 4-way RAID 0 stripe. SATA of SATA II in a 4-way RAID should handle HD flavors, but I've never tried it personally.

Chris
 
Hi Guys,
I'm also looking at a computer to run Avid Xpress Pro on. I don't know much about Mac, but I was thinking of going MAC because of everything I've heard about stability.

2 Questions for you all. My editing experience caps with BetacamSP and the Sony BVE2000's, so please bear with my NLE innocence.

How much memory (hard drive) would I need for DV editing? How about HD?

Also, I am planning to run Serious Magic Ultra 2. I have a separate computer that I can run that on, but it won't really work well as a primary editing unit. Is there a convenient way to transfer video files across platform between the PC (Ultra2) and the Mac(for the AVID)? Or, am I just looking for trouble trying to be a 2 format house?
Thanks,
Mike
 
Mike, if you have to make the decision on whether or not to go Mac with Avid, then I assume you must have turned Final Cut Pro down as an option. If that is the case, then I would recommend staying away from buying a Macintosh at this point in time. They'll be switching to Intel processors next year and that means all of their software and possibly some hardware will need to be changed.

Ok, if you're going Avid, you need to make sure that you don't have too many other software programs installed because from what I hear the Avid software will mess up for some reason with certain programs installed. This may have been fixed by now but it's still recommended to dedicate one computer to Avid. I don't think it would be bad to have Serious Magic Ultra 2 and some other video related software, like DVRACK, on your computer but just don't make that computer your "do everything" computer, like for both work and home entertainment purposes.

For hardware, I would recommend a RAID 0 setup but from my personal experience, I find that seperate drives in a non-RAID setup is infinitely more useful than having all of my drives put into one. For HD, it's a little tough whether to go with RAID or not because you do need quite a bit of storage for HD. My gut instinct says to go with the non-RAID setup and use the bigger drives available to you at this point in time. Here's what I'm currently using:

2x 74gb Western Digital 10,000RPM Raptor SATA HDD's
2x 250gb Western Digital 7,200RPM 8mb Cache SATA HDD's

I use one of the Raptors for installing software programs and the other one for the O/S and essential programs (like Windows Media Player and Quicktime) and the two 250gb drives for everything else. One 250gb drive for my games (I don't use Avid at the moment but I will pretty soon) and the other 250gb drive for video storage and backup.

Nowadays you can forgo the Raptor drives and go with something like:

4x 500gb Maxtor SATA HDD's

or for better stability but minus 100gb per drive

4x 400gb Western Digital 16mb Cache SATA HDD's

I stick with Western Digital because their drives are top notch, quiet, and none of them has died on me yet for the past six years I've been using them!:thumbsup:

But yeah, you would ideally want four drives opposed to two because you'll have a lot more storage and organization. Don't worry too much about the Raptor HDD's, they aren't too much faster than the newer drives currently available. One more thing, be sure to get at least 2gb of RAM. It will really help with video stuff.

Last answer. You can move files back and forth between the PC and Mac. I don't see why you can't. All you'd have to do is work with Quicktime files and use an external HDD to transfer back and forth.
 
For HD, it's a little tough whether to go with RAID or not because you do need quite a bit of storage for HD.
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Using RAID setups with HD isn't as much about storage as it is about bandwidth. You need a RAID to edit HD footage. For higher flavors of HD you need at least a 4 way striped RAID storage solution.
 
Thanks for the response. This comp is going to be completely video. Well, maybe a little production music, too. But, defilitely not the websurfing machine. Is internal RAID the way to go, or are the extrenal arrays that I've seen advertized a better bet? What is the way to go external? SCSI, USB2, IEEE 1394? Can they handle the bandwidths needed? I wasn't planning to get into HD until third or fourth quarter next year. I'm hoping the HVX200A will be out by then. :laugh: I had been looking at 2x400GB for video storage. I figured I could add more next year. But, I'm already getting angina from the capital purchases that I've got planned. I was going with AVID mostly because I can get expert advice and help in learning/using it. I don't have any buddies who use FCP.
 
Ah, I didn't think about bandwidth. My bad! =)

Well, I can't guarantee that I'm correct about this, but I guess that the external RAID storage systems would be good for HD. I would read an online manual or FAQ about them first though. Since you'll be using an HVX200 (possibly an HVX200A by then, who knows?), I don't think you'll need to worry too much about a four-way RAID as the HVX200 will be more along the lines of prosumer rather than full on Thompson Green Valley, Panasonic Varicam, or Sony F900/950 caliber. For now, 2x 400gb drives should be fine for video storage.
 
I can't say this with 100% accuracy, so maybe one of the more technical minded people can jump in here with figures and such, but I'm thinking a 4-way stripe would be preferred with the HVX. A 2-way would probably get your footage playing, but in any sort of complex sequence with multiple layers a 4-way (or larger array) is really going to be a benefit to you.

If you decide to go with a 2-way stripe, then internal will be fine. If you're going to be using a Mojo then you need to mind your bus segments and be sure that you don't have your drives conflicting with your firewire ports. If you go 4-way or higher, then that pretty much limits you to an external solution. SCSI is definitely the defacto for PC and Fibre Channel for Mac. There are some compelling external SATA solutions out there that are worth a look as well.
 
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..................................
I like the price of SATA when compared to that of SCSI. What is the limiting factor when it comes to the different formats? Is it the drives or the interface? Can Firewire handle the bandwidth to support a 4-way system?
 
Drives mostly. Your SCSIs are 10,000 RPM or better. You can get 10,000 RPM SATA drives, but they're really, really small. Theoretically Firewire could do it, but I'm not familiar with any Firewire RAID hardware. It would have to be a software RAID which in my experience are not as reliable as Hardware based setups. Your mileage may vary.

Chris
 
Would 2x400GB internal 7200RPM SATA for data be enough to do SD without trouble? If so, I can always add an external SCSI RAID array next year for HD.
 
Cool, thanks. That sounds like the plan then. I'll add RAID when I go HD. I'm still hemming and hawing about which platform. Will probably go with PC. I'm just a bit worried about stability.
 
Looking at the definitions of RAID levels, the RAID 0 doesn't have any parity or other failsafe measures. Is it used for editing just to speed up the read/write process? Is there a system that anyone uses to both have speed and disaster recovery?
 
Yes, RAID 0 is used only for speed.

I use RAID 0 and do my own backups. Your situation might differ from mine, but keep in mind that your RAIDed drives are going to be used only for footage. So on my setup, if I lost my RAID (knock on wood) then I'd still have my project files in Avid (as they're stored on the system drive) and the only thing I'd have to do is recapture my footage from the master tapes and link everything up.

If I wanted to then I could do backups of the footage onto an external Firewire drive. Your backups don't need to have the strength of your RAID, just comparable space because you'll rebuild the RAID if it crashes, and then recopy your footage over before getting back to work.

As far as RAID 0+1 setups, I'm afraid I don't have any experience with those. If you went for just a mirrored RAID, then you lose the bandwidth boost that you get from RAID 0.

Also, I wouldn't worry about stability on the PC side of things as long as you're using an Avid approved system. I've never experienced any down-time on my approved system.

Chris
 
I assumed that they weren't developing for MAc as much because everyone was using FCP. It seems like they can really take advantage of the PC platform. It runs great on my PC at home that is not a certified machine and also on my certified machine at work.

THe beauty is when you buy Avid you get a copy for both Mac & PC.
 
The official story as to why the PC development has surpassed Mac development is because of Tiger. Avid has said that there were some tremendous changes to Tiger that required a lot of coding. Supposedly the development cycle on each platform is going to fall back in line and the migration of Apple to Intel processors is rumored to help.

FCP is making head-way, but Avid still rules the majority of post-houses either PC or Mac.

Time will tell.

Chris
 
Thanks guys. I went to the MAC store and was playing with the G2. I think I'll go with the HP workstation. Since, I'm more familiar with the PC platform and am already running a couple of them in the house.
 
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