Best Picture Quality: 24P or 24P Advanced?

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Re: Best Picture Quality: 24P or 24P Advanced?

lol ..its an old computer/I. S. dept. saying.. its for when someone has a computer technical  error or issue they need resolved that never really had to be an issue in the first place but is more or less a self created issue. you would say " oh ..i see i think this is a PEBCAK error..", and the person having the issue would probably  nod their heads (in complete ignorance) and say something like "yeah, ..i knew it was a serious problem that had to be dealt with right away!!"

pebcak = problem exists between chair and keyboard.

not meant to be any sort of insult in any way in this discusion.. just my way of saying that this issue (the quality loss of one dv generation from converting 24pn to a true 24p file)is mostly one that dosent matter unless someone creates it for themselves by not planning ahead. but there are always some issues one cannot plan for as well of course.
and again, the results of this issue can be very unnoticeable if handled correctly.
 
Re: Best Picture Quality: 24P or 24P Advanced?

pebcak = problem exists between chair and keyboard.
Click to expand...
LOL!!

I call it "code 18": The problem is 18 inches away from the monitor. And sometimes when the user deserves it: I.D.10.T. Error! ;D
 
Re: Best Picture Quality: 24P or 24P Advanced?

Ouauuuuu Why nobody wants answer on myy question . I need to work ntsc and Pal which is the best way 24N or 24 ADV. merci. Jose (editing on xpress Pro)
 
Re: Best Picture Quality: 24P or 24P Advanced?

Again, this is all a very simple rule and it all depends on how the NLE handles the pulldown for native 24p editing. If you don't plan on native 24p editing (frame raqte) then shoot 24pN.

If you plan on editing at 24p native, then you have t choose between 24pN or 24pA and that is a question of how your NLE's deal with the pulldown cadence for capture. But to say that one must use ADVANCED for a film out is untrue as it too has bearing on the NLE. The ASC test I did last year was done NORMAL since my editing system knew how to deal with that. I was able to very succesfully go to film.

Also on output, if going to film some facilities that work tape based will want a digibeta master or DV for that matter so that the uprez to 1080p/24 can be done (such as a Teranex box). These devices expect NORMAL pulldown in their signal. They can also work with a 2:2:2:2 signal for picture only eliminating pulldown from the equation completely. This is great for animation where action is animated on 2's or 3's and detectors in these devices may get confused between that and 2:3 pulldown. Settingn it to a 2:2:2:2 mode removes this ambiguity. Avid 23.976/24p systems have this as an option in the digital cut tool (Xpess Pro needs Mojo for this). Action will play back 25% faster as a result, but this is only used as a transport medium for transcoding using NTSC, and it is not intended for broadcast or similar type viewing.

Also, getting worried about a render pass from 24pN is pretty academic and would only have bearing (and very little at that) if you never rendered anything in your final timeline. So don't do any effects, color correction, etc. that might require a render! ;)

And Jose, you need to be more soecific with your question... Do you need to work both PAL and NTSC as separate projects, or turn one into the other, or mix them together? Al different issues.

Michael
 
Re: Best Picture Quality: 24P or 24P Advanced?

Hello
Michael sorry ! I need to work whith a NTSC dvx-100 and edit on Xpress pro. For distribution I need also Pal for distribution in Europe. I don't undersatnd which of 24 or 24A is the best to go to pal and which is the method used to transfer 23,97 to PAL. Merci. Jose
 
Re: Best Picture Quality: 24P or 24P Advanced?

If you editing at 24p native in Xpress Pro, your only choice is to go with 24pA so you can discard the reduntant frame during capture. For example, if you were on Adrenaline, you could capture either, so again, it is based on the capabilities of your NLE.

The next question back to you is whether you want to create the PAL version yourself, or will it be done by a service? If done yourself, the quality may or not be the best as Xpress Pro does not do a format conversion on play out as does a Symphony.

I have not tried it yet, but Sorenson Squeeze which ships with Xpress Pro may do a formats conversion if you give it a 24p NTSC QT Reference and select PAL progressive as your output. Give it a shot and let us know what you find!

Michael
 
Re: Best Picture Quality: 24P or 24P Advanced?

Here's another question for anybody that might know. Say I shoot my film in 24Pa and edit on a 24p timeline, lets say in Vegas. Now in order to output that back onto a dv tape, vegas with then incorporate a 3:2 pulldown (re-rendering) the footage to be output to tape. Ok, that's not the problem. Now lets say in the future I want to re capture this footage, will vegas be able to take out the same split frames that it added when outputting to tape? Thanks in advance to anyone who has tried this or knows the answer just off the top of your head.

Stefan
 
Re: Best Picture Quality: 24P or 24P Advanced?

I am going to be shooting a feature that I know will be released on DVD I don’t know if it will be considered for film so the main concern is DVD. I was planing to shoot in 24p because of less motion strobe effects. It will be edited on Premiere Pro. But what if it were to go to film? Would I regret not shooting in 24pa?
 
Re: Best Picture Quality: 24P or 24P Advanced?

Hello
Michael, I don't thingk transfert to Pal myself. The question is which is the best way to have both :shoot 24pA and bring it to a symphony or shoot 24p or 30 p , edit on regular way (Aid or Vegas)and make traditionnal transfert to Pal. Merci Jose
 
Re: Best Picture Quality: 24P or 24P Advanced?

[quote author=Ronbo link=board=Events;num=1066664942;start=25#27 date=01/05/04 at 09:47:32]I am going to be shooting a feature that I know will be released on DVD I don’t know if it will be considered for film so the main concern is DVD. I was planing to shoot in 24p because of less motion strobe effects. It will be edited on Premiere Pro. But what if it were to go to film? Would I regret not shooting in 24pa?[/quote]

I believe that Premiere Pro does not do 24p editing or 2:3:3:2 reverse pulldown, so that means you're going to be editing a 24fps project on a 60i timeline. If that's the case, I would recommend shooting 24pn so that you don't get odd motion effects. Then you can create a 60i DVD.

If you want to go out to film, I think you'd then have two possibilities:

(1) go through your edit and make sure that all of your edits fall on the A frame so that the transfer house could reverse pulldown your video and retrieve the original 24p frames, or

(2) have the transfer house treat it like any old 60i video.

You'd have to talk to the house and see what they thought was best. I have no idea what the quality would be compared to a pristine 24p film out.
 
Re: Best Picture Quality: 24P or 24P Advanced?

Sorry to double post, but I thought of another possible workflow if you're really concerned about the film out.

You could acquire in 24pa, capture the footage, reverse 2:3:3:2 pulldown the footage through DVFilm Maker to make 24p clips, then 2:3:2:3 pulldown the footage in DVFilm Maker to make 60i clips, and finally edit those clips in Premiere Pro. The clips that you'd be editing with would be the exact same quality as what you would have gotten with 24pn. However, you would also have 24pa versions of the clips to fall back on if you wanted to re-edit at 24p and go to film out.

It would be a total pain and probably not worth it, but it would give you the best quality for a potential film out and wouldn't compromise any quality for the DVD.
 
Re: Best Picture Quality: 24P or 24P Advanced?

Thank you for your reply I will look into the DV Film Maker software. I may have to bite the bullet and buy Vegas software
 
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