Best Method for Mixing/Sound Editing

S

sean90291

Veteran
I shoot with the DVX100A and edit in Avid Xpress. I have learned a lot about both. But now I'm starting to face the hprospect of editing my audio along with my video, and frankly I know nothing about it.

Is there a program anyone recommends for such purposes?

And can someone tell me what the basic, big-picture steps are in this process? (e.g., after picture edit, export the audio to some program...or do audio edit right in avid...or some other method)

Any advice appreciated!
 
Yes, I realize it's big. I was looking for a couple of one-liners:

e.g. You need to export the audio to a program like Pro Tools to do all the audio mixing and then re-import to Avid.
 
Typically, the Avid session is exported via OMF, which is then imported into ProTools for editing and mixing.

If you want to accompish this on a tight budget, I'd reccomend a ProTools LE system such as the MBox 2 or Digi 002. You'll have to add the DV Toolkit upgrade package, which will give you OMF import/export options as well as timeline ruler support for SMPTE timecode. Although you can watch video playback from an on-screen quicktime window, I'd reccomend playing it out the firewire port through a DV to analogue transcoder (eg. a DV camera or a Canopus transcoder box). Just make sure you callibrate the DV offset witing ProTools LE to the device you're using. Also keep an eye out for A/V synch issues: always double-up on your synch references (eg. timecode burn-in along with 2-beep/tail-pop) whenever moving from one platform to another, and you'll avoid a lot of frustration and down-time.

The finished PT mix can be bounced as an uncompressed audio file and re-imported into the Avid session for your marriage print.

One great thing about this particular setup is that you can do a set of 32-track stereo premixes in the comfort of your own studio, then take the sessions to a larger mixing theater equipped with a ProTools TDM system for a full 5.1 surround mix (since PT LE itself does not support surround track groupings or panning).

Hope that answers your question.
 
You already have the one liners...

I would not go protools LE only because I'm not a big fan of it compared to the power of either Logic or Cubase/Nuendo, either of which you can do full surround mixing in.

But protools LE would work. But again, this simple statement of my preference could yield a large thread alone filled with subtle preferences. One liners will not help you in the least, you need to do a fair bit of research (unless you know more than you're letting on). THEN after you've researched the topic, ask specific questions and you will receive many more answers.

Matt
 
Thanks all. In fact the one liners were more than that even--a good basic summary from SMuir. I figure you can't learn everything you need to know about anything on a message board filled with 101 opinions. But you can get basic questions answered, or at least pointed in the right direction. I'm going to research ProTools vs. Cubase more and I'll check out that thread, Yankee. Thank you.
 
Some of our opinions fall into the 102 catagory...

Yeah, I got back a couple of weeks ago. Still working on the still photos (the UN and UNICEF are publishing some of them and I even have a nibble from National Geographic). As soon as I put them up on my site, I'll post them here. Then I start logging the video. This trip was just research and a bit of an exploratory test, hopefully everything will come together funding wise and we can really ramp up on this. Senegal was AMAZING.

Best,

Matt
 
Dont waste your money on ProTools - Nuendo gives you the features of the best Pro Tools rig,at the cost of the cheapest ProTools rig.

People that slate software that isnt ProTools are narrow minded - ProTools is good software, but its not the only software. Plus Nuendo is cross platform, so you can run it on Mac or PC.

Export an OMF of your clips from your timeline.
Import into the audio editor.
Work on them - if its a narrative film, try split audio work into categories:

Dialogue
Effects
Ambience
Music

Dialogue will need compression and EQ to stand out and be clear. Pick a level to place dialogue at : this varys from person to person, I mix between -27dB and -18dB depending on the project.

Effects can consist of CD library sounds, foley (picture sync recorded) sounds, and production sound effects.

Ambience technically falls under effects, but I keep it seperate, especially when working surround, because it is basically the canvas on which you "paint" your other sounds.

Music is pretty obvious.


One bit of advice: these categories (or stem mixes), should be able to be viewed on their own (i.e. just ambience, just effects etc) and still sound great, and possibly even tell the story to a certain extent : when they work on their own, imagine how good it will all sound together!

When you finish, do a mix down to stereo, or to split surround waves for encoding (say, with Apples A-Pack software) to surround.

Hope this helps a bit.
Tim
 
Pro Tools is MAC and PC as well. I have an LE system, and it works great. I like it better than Nuendo, but that's personal preference. I have used Nuendo, and it's really cool, and has a lot of nice features, I just prefer the way pro tools does things.

The thing to keep in mind is that Pro Tools IS the industry standard. If you want to be compatible with other people in the future, you'd better get pro tools (where sound editing is concerned). I have dealt with composers that used Logic and Nuendo, and they do all their work in the box, and just hand me the stereo file, which works great.

All that aside, I would highly recommend you hire a competent sound editor to help you out on this one.

-Dave
 
sean90291,

See how your vague question has degraded into a pointless (for you anyway) debate about ProTools -vs- everything else? This is why you need to do some reading and then ask a nice specific question (Which will of course devolve into a fight about ProTools -vs- everything else)

:)
 
But they are valid points, when hard earned cash is involved. It's not really pointless if he doesn't have anything, and is looking to buy something (which, if you don't know what you are doing, I would advise against).

-Dave
 
Agreed. And Dave makes a good point regarding compatibility with large mix houses (although more and more will mix in Nuendo if you want). And that point shouldn't be ignored if that would be your plan - they will essentially cary on where you leave off in LE - not a bad solution at all. BUT, if you are setting up your own audio workstation to do your own mixing, you will get MUCH, MUCH more bang from your buck with Nuendo. Hell, I don't even think most folks need Nuendo, Cubase SX is almost as powerful and still much more powerful than Protools LE.

It all comes down to what you want to accomplish. Which we still don't know....
 
For the Power to Performance ratio, I think Matt is correct about Nuendo. It is a very capable program, and for the money, pretty much rocks the house.

-Dave
 
Thanks, Dave.

One other point. I don't really believe in starting a mix and then giving that to a post house to "finish". In all likelihood you will not be saving time or money, you will be increasing it. I might make a stereo mix and send it to Dave so that he has an idea of what I'm shooting for (or have him come to my home studio for the same purpose) but at the end of the day, if I'm hiring a post house, I want them to do their job. They, like any of us, know how to get the most out of the tools at their disposal, and if it's a pro house they're going to have some very good tools. Sound editing is all about making very small changes to many, many layers that ultimately results in a good mix (Dave, if I'm speaking out of my but here, please step up and say so). So, for best results your sound designer needs to have control of the audio at all levels. If he or she is just "picking up where you left off" the result probably wont be very good and they will probably have to undo most of what you did anyway.

So from that standpoint, compatibility has never been a major concern of mine, I'm either doing it myself, or I'll hire a pro to do it right from the beginning. But again, I would still make a mix to let them know what I was aiming for.

Matt
 
Actually, this "Big unanswerable question" has not "degenerated" at all. I'm glad I asked it! And I'm glad there are a lot of knowledgeable people on DVXUser willing to take the time to respond. I'm learning a lot already, and it's giving me some basic insights so I even know where to start looking for the more complex answers. So cheers, folks.
 
It's not unanswerable but it is big.

Sorry, call it a pet peeve of mine. When someone asks a very vague question without much knowledge and its a topic we've covered ad nauseam, I feel a little search button/google usage is in order. If you do a search of this forum, you will see numerous resources that I and others have posted for research.

Matt
 
Unfortunately, the use of a lot of different words in posts to reference a particular topic, coupled with a rapidly expanding database of posts on dvxuser.com makes searching for answers rather cumbersome. I did try to search, after all, without much luck. Especially when I knew so little it was difficult to even know what to search for.

Hey, one day the best of dvxuser.com posts could be consolidated into a brilliant dvxuser.com book! Hint hint. Until then, try as I might, searching doesn't always lead me to the answers...any more than Google does (you have 4,675,887 results!). Bear with us lame-o neophytes, MattC. I mean, I'm not FORCING you to answer me (though your knowledge is appreciated!). ;-)
 
Are you on mac or PC?

I say, do all you can in Xpress and when you get to a point where you NEED another program then you'll know, more specifically, what to ask.

You could ask specifically about: sound placement, sound levels, FX, 5.1, and a HOST of other subjects. Audio is as big a subject as video and the only way to really learn is to immerse yourself. Try getting on PT or Nuendo's forums and ask away.
 
2 Words:

Fast Tracker

BTW: If you get the joke you are showing your age and geekdom, which obviously I just did
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top