Best intermediate codec?

roxics

roxics

Veteran
Seems like I'm always working with the raw footage straight off the camera (HDV or H.264 DSLR). But then when I need to create an intermediate file I'm stuck between uncompressed or mpeg2 or h.264. I know neither of these last two formats are good for intermediates, but uncompressed is also way too big.

I've looked at Avid DNxHD, Cineform Neoscene and ProRes422. The last of which doesn't seem to be encodable on PC's.

What's my best option here? Especially for older hardware like editing on a unibody macbook with a 2.4Ghz core2 duo/nvidia 9400m under windows 7. Something that isn't going to completely lag on the timeline and is pretty cross compatible.
 
Hey Roxics,

I've used Avid DNXHD quicktimes quite a bit. They are great quality and reasonable file size, plus it's free. The direct compatibility with Mac's helps to so you don't have to convert them when bring them over from a PC. The only problem with them is that you need a fairly decent computer to play them back at realtime when the file is big.

ProRes only has a Decoder for Windows, but might not ever have an encoder for Windows.

DVCPRO HD quicktimes are another option with a program like Raylight Encoder Pro. It's a great codec with 4:2:2 color and it will playback in realtime probably on more machines than the Avid DNXHD quicktimes. It's not full raster though if that matters.

Hope this helps,
Andy
 
Thanks for the replies guys.
Can all of these formats be rendered out (encoded) using Vegas Pro and After Effects?

For instance where would I find the render setting for Cineform in Vegas?
 
I was experimenting with the DnXHD codec, but apparently Vegas doesn't play nice in a MOV wrapper.

I've been reccomended the Matrox VfW codecs which were recently opened up. They are not lossless but are very good codecs, and if you put the bitrate up then you shouldn't have any problems. Best thing is that they are in an AVI wrapper.
 
I use a low res .avi since Vegas seems to like those. I then import the EDL into AE where I swap out the files for a HD version using Avid's DNxHD codec.
 
Cineform would be an AVI container under the Video for Windows selection in the Render As dialog. Then you select Cineform as the codec in the custom settings.

All the others would be Quicktime/MOV containers done the same way.

Best,
Andy
 
I would recommend Cineform. Works great, smallish and plays back all day long with no problems.

Vegas does not get on with .mov DNxHD files well at all. It was a huge headache for me.
 
I have sony vegas 9e and neoscene, but when i drag the clips to the timeline the video does not show up! only the sound track, no preview either!!
whats wrong??
 
El Director said:
Agreed. Vegas can take almost anything you can throw at it, but it really doesn't like those .mov's
Click to expand...
Woa!
So you guys are saying that I wouldn't be able to render properly if I drop .moc files into Vegas?
I have a very important edit to do for a customer. I would like to get more details on this. I have about 10 hours of .mov footage right now. What is the best thing for me to do to get these .mov files in and render out as .mov later.
Can I buy cineform and use this? then render out as .mov later?
THanks
 
I’ve tried several intermediate codes.
AVI (huge files)
WMV (not too bad but color was a little lighter/softer)
Lagarith (huge files)
Cineform (couldn’t tell enough of a difference to buy)
And using Proxy files (which worked really good but was a lot of extra steps)

But now I have found something better!
Nothing!
I call it the brute force approach!

I just upgraded my system. 3.2 gig Phenom II hex core (yes 6 cores) with 16 gigs of DDR3, Velociraptor HD, and the new Vegas Movie Studio Platinum HD (10).

I was comparing Vegas Movie studio 9 VS the new HD 10 on my new system for about 4 hours last night and wow! Huge performance difference! Frame rates during editing are dramatically improved over 9! I’m talking from 3-5FPS to 60FPS! I don’t want to get too carried away before I have a good 12 hours of testing but so far I am VERY impressed. It’s a joy seeing all 6 cores chugging away at 80+% while rendering a movie.

Plat 9 still chokes on huge 3gig MP4 files (H.264 from a GoPro HD) even with this new system but Plat HD10 plays them smooth as butter! Vegas always seemed to like the AVCHD from my GH1 and the new Plat HD10 is no different. Those are the only two formats I have tried thus far.

I will write a long review of the new Movie Studio HD 10 in a week or so. I really want to sink my teeth into this new version before I get too carried away. Now I’m thinking if I added a solid state hard drive it would be ridiculous!
 
I have an 8 core machine. It plays AVCHD in real time inside my NLE. I still transcode to a better editing codec for my purposes.

Best of luck with your new-found success.
 
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