Best genre to start in?

T

tleisher

Member
I know everyone says to start in horror, but I really dislike horror... have never liked them, and given the choice I would probably never direct one.

Eventually, I'd like to direct Adventure/Fantasy films... Transformers, Star Trek, Pirates of the Caribbean, Sweeney Todd, Harry Potter, etc.

I've thought of starting in comedy, doing some low budget stuff to get an agent and some buzz, then have the agent help pitch me on Fantasy films. Or should I start doing films in a dramatic or thriller genre?

Any advice/opinions are welcomed.
 
You can do action on a reasonably low budget. Pick up the DV Rebel's Guide for some ideas on pulling off different shots
 
Courtroom drama--minimal locations, doesn't usually require difficult camera work, usually satisfying.
 
If you're just practicing it doesn't matter- do whatever you are interested in doing. If you're good at comedy it gets some popularity easier than anything else. But if you think some videos you made as practice will get you an agent and that agent will get you work shooting your dream concepts, you may need to rethink the latter part of your plan. Once you know what you're doing you need a script, a business plan and a lot of hard work to get your feature shot. There's a lot more to it than picking a genre.
 
How could you be a film lover and ignore a whole genre of movies.

A guy who wants to be a film director. Never saw Psycho, Jaws, The Exorcist, Rosemary's Baby, The Shining, or Carrie.

Sigh.

and claims he'd reject those scripts. I repeat. claims...he'd...ugh...i dunno, you must be some sort of super genius, because you have better taste in dramatic material than William Friedkin, Steven Speilberg, Alfred Hitchcock, and Stanley Kubrick.

Face palm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFI's_100_Years...100_Thrills
 
memento515 said:
How could you be a film lover and ignore a whole genre of movies.

A guy who wants to be a film director. Never saw Psycho, Jaws, The Exorcist, Rosemary's Baby, The Shining, or Carrie.

Sigh.

and claims he'd reject those scripts. I repeat. claims...he'd...ugh...i dunno, you must be some sort of super genius, because you have better taste in dramatic material than William Friedkin, Steven Speilberg, Alfred Hitchcock, and Stanley Kubrick.

Face palm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFI's_100_Years...100_Thrills
Click to expand...

Just because someone doesn't want to work in horror doesn't mean they're a bad filmmaker, or that they're claiming to be better than Spielberg. Seriously, dude, you're taking his post WAY too personally.

Tleisher, I'd suggest finding a genre in which you can produce a movie that sells. Awards and drama really don't mean s..t if you want someone to trust you with money. The only thing that means anything in that case is money. Make something that has the potential to do well in the market. Right now, the choice for non-Hollywood fare is mostly Action/Thrillers, Horror, Family or Very Good Comedy (Comedy is actually really hard to do well).

If you don't want to do Horror, I'd suggest going with Action. It's easier to sell a B-movie with action than an A-movie about a father dealing with unemployment (which might be great, but unless it absolutely blows people away or unless maybe George Clooney is starring, it's not going to get very far).

Just make sure that whatever genre you work in, you understand what the audience for that genre is expecting in a good movie. Play to that expectation. Give them what they want, but surprise them with something more.
 
Thanks everyone for the feedback, I think I was overthinking things and worried about getting typecasted but this early in my career I should just focus on making good stuff.

memento515 said:
How could you be a film lover and ignore a whole genre of movies.

A guy who wants to be a film director. Never saw Psycho, Jaws, The Exorcist, Rosemary's Baby, The Shining, or Carrie.

Sigh.

and claims he'd reject those scripts. I repeat. claims...he'd...ugh...i dunno, you must be some sort of super genius, because you have better taste in dramatic material than William Friedkin, Steven Speilberg, Alfred Hitchcock, and Stanley Kubrick.

Face palm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFI's_100_Years...100_Thrills
Click to expand...

I think you misunderstand what I Was saying or I misspoke. I absolutely LOVE Thrillers and Suspense films, to me a Suspense Thriller is different then a horror film. I guess what I'm more not into is the new wave of torture porn films (Saw, etc) or slasher flicks... Jaws, The Shining, etc are all films that I've enjoyed. Things like Saw or The Haunting in Connecticut are stories that I didn't enjoy.
 
well, yeah, those two particular movies are bad.

but Texas Chainsaw Massacre is mega super awesome, as is Halloween. You should be able to tell why Texas Chainsaw in the Museum Of Modern Art's collection, and the Saw franchise is crap. (hint: there's almost no blood in Texas Chainsaw, and people left the theaters thinking they remembered seeing limbs flying about).

Watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c3nXYo-51M
 
tleisher said:
I know everyone says to start in horror, but I really dislike horror... have never liked them, and given the choice I would probably never direct one.

Eventually, I'd like to direct Adventure/Fantasy films... Transformers, Star Trek, Pirates of the Caribbean, Sweeney Todd, Harry Potter, etc.

I've thought of starting in comedy, doing some low budget stuff to get an agent and some buzz, then have the agent help pitch me on Fantasy films. Or should I start doing films in a dramatic or thriller genre?

Any advice/opinions are welcomed.
Click to expand...

The most significant element of any project that one would consider, with a low/no budget in minde, is location and number of people. A short film that takes place in a single room, will provide plenty of 'training' material, and would be watchable if the story that unfolds holds the viewer's interest... whether it's a cannibal, preparing his evening pot pie of the neighbors... or an odd couple arguing over how tidy the other is or is not...

For 'feature' length films, 'horror' seems to be popular, because such things as 'character development', 'acting', 'story' often can fall in to the pit, as long as there is enough blood to wash it down... all is well...
 
memento515 said:
well, yeah, those two particular movies are bad.

but Texas Chainsaw Massacre is mega super awesome, as is Halloween. You should be able to tell why Texas Chainsaw in the Museum Of Modern Art's collection, and the Saw franchise is crap. (hint: there's almost no blood in Texas Chainsaw, and people left the theaters thinking they remembered seeing limbs flying about).

Watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c3nXYo-51M
Click to expand...

This is from someone whose avatar is Goya's "Saturn eating his son", with only a little blood...
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
For 'feature' length films, 'horror' seems to be popular, because such things as 'character development', 'acting', 'story' often can fall in to the pit, as long as there is enough blood to wash it down... all is well...
Click to expand...

Your points, as usual, are well taken, but your habit (recently acquired, IIRC) of massively overusing single-quotes is comical at best, and almost completely distracting from what you're saying at worst.

You really 'ought' to 'stop' this 'silly' grammatical 'convention', if you don't 'mind' me 'saying'...

: )
 
Write and shoot what you want to shoot. Don't try following trends, because by the time you do it's over...like horror. Try selling a horror film script right now...almost impossible. It's run it's course for a few years...unless you have something that is so unbelievably great...a one-in-a-million script. Don't follow the herd. Follow your own instincts.
 
Kess said:
Write and shoot what you want to shoot. Don't try following trends, because by the time you do it's over...like horror. Try selling a horror film script right now...almost impossible. It's run it's course for a few years...unless you have something that is so unbelievably great...a one-in-a-million script. Don't follow the herd. Follow your own instincts.
Click to expand...

Right, but I do think there are at least a few reliable cautionary tales. Out-and-out drama has really weakened commercially in recent years. Even Best Picture Oscar nominee "Winter's Bone", (94% on the Tomatometer), has made only $6M at the box office in 7 months (according to the-numbers.com), surging just recently with the nom. For a $2M budget film that's actually pretty good, but I think it does indicate the kind of tough hill to climb that any relatively pure drama faces. Knowing these kind of things in advance may help one make smarter choices before committing the potentially enormous amounts time and money into a feature. Caveat Emptor, as they say...
 
We have hosted several 'new talent' film festivals in years past, and are putting another together now. As one who has seen a lot of nubie projects, I can offer two pieces of advice:
1) Storytelling is everything, to the point that genre almost doesn't matter -- the best films we've ever seen really didn't have a genre at all. Just pick a story that is do-able and start doing it. (This, of course, is easier said than done -- all my own projects start out as easy and then blow into complicated beasts.)
2) Push yourself very hard in post - every stinker project we've ever seen could have been salvaged (to some degree) in post. Nubie producers tend to edit their own projects, and remember how hard they worked to get whatever shot it is they are posting at the time. Don't sacrifice your story just because you are too in love with something to pull it down to where it needs to be.
 
NVentive said:
Don't sacrifice your story just because you are too in love with something to pull it down to where it needs to be.
Click to expand...


I've been trying to find some one to do some projects, as my last short is now two years old... my how time flies... But some of this 'cutting' begins with the script. I recently read a script that had page after page of dialog, little action, and most of the dialog was, to me, mostly tangential to the story. I replied with an example of a paired down scene with about 2 lines of dialog, from a page worth, and I got the response that the writer was going to add more pages to the script as it was. I didn't persue the project...

The point being, that the trimming of the film shouldn't start in the editing room. I've read of Hitchcock, that he setup to shoot almost exactly the shot, duration, and coverage so that the editor was pretty much left with only assembly. Perhaps that doesn't give the editor much room, but I think for a one-man-band or limited crew, that sort of shooting is a goal. Rather than spend years with mountains of e-reels...

Then you read about Wilder having to do 50 takes of Monroe just for 5 seconds of screen time, because she couldn't deliver her lines, hit marks, or whatever... (for "Some Like it Hot"(1959)).

Who has the time for that when working part time, no budget projects.
 
Ted Spencer said:
You really 'ought' to 'stop' this 'silly' grammatical 'convention', if you don't 'mind' me 'saying'...

: )
Click to expand...

I'd problaby only quote 'silly'... but yeah, some times I go overboard with marking off things that I've seen end up being tangential thread killers, because someone takes issue with usage or different definitions.
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
Then you read about Wilder having to do 50 takes of Monroe just for 5 seconds of screen time, because she couldn't deliver her lines, hit marks, or whatever... (for "Some Like it Hot"(1959)
Click to expand...

I hadn't heard about that. But I did take occasion just recently to watch "Some Like it Hot" again, and not only was it a thoroughly enjoyable film, but I thought MM's performance was really quite excellent. If it took a 50:1 ratio of crap to good to get it from her, then Wilder probably deserves some kind of a medal for High Achievement In Cinema Under Extreme Duress or something. Seriously...

Jack Lemmon was also absolutely stellar in it...
 
Ted Spencer said:
I hadn't heard about that. But I did take occasion just recently to watch "Some Like it Hot" again, and not only was it a thoroughly enjoyable film, but I thought MM's performance was really quite excellent. If it took a 50:1 ratio of crap to good to get it from her, then Wilder probably deserves some kind of a medal for High Achievement In Cinema Under Extreme Duress or something. Seriously...

Jack Lemmon was also absolutely stellar in it...
Click to expand...

I think that info was on the 'special features' section of the DVD i have, and where they did show some of the outtakes.

In the "Directing" book by Rabiger mentioned above, he makes the statement that Hollywood films don't do much in the way of rehearsals for many scenes, and that the indie/new filmmaker would be wise to rehearse, especially with talent that is not heavily trained. So, the many takes may be a consequence, perhaps a gamble, on not rehearsing scenes to the point where it is well known what is going to happen.
 
Sounds very much like my own experiences as an actor. Almost no rehearsal, and what little of it there is is often instigated off to the side by the actors themselves on the day of the shoot. Otherwise there's a couple of runthroughs for blocking and directorial comments, then we roll. I couldn't agree more about the value of it though. Such a stark contrast with theater, where extensive rehearsing is the rule. There of course, everything has to be memorized and then performed in real time, so it's a completely different reality. I wish more filmmakers saw through to its real value though...although some famously do...
 
Determine where you passion is and that is what you should write/shoot...no matter the genre. Otherwise you will be trying to force yourself into something that most likely will not work out. You'll be forcing it. Over the past few years everyone said to go into horror or comedy and avoid drama, period films, sports films. The Blind Side (sports drama) made approx $255 million. The King's Speach (period drama) is approaching $80 million. Black Swan (drama/thriller) $100 million. Look at the films that sold at Sundance this year...pretty much all were dramas. Look at the scripts that the studios bought in 2010 and dramas sold as well as anything. Remember, by the time you see a studio film on the big screen there are a ton more coming just like it so you've missed the boat. When you go with your passion you have the possibility of making something great. When you go against your passion then your chances of success are slim. What films do you have the passion for and are willing to spend 2 to 10 years of your life making?
 
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