Best DSLR to use as RED cam Viewfinder?

R

Ronald Gerald Smith

Active member
I am considering purchasing a DSLR on my Red shoots: I would be using this to help me and the director frame out the shots without moving the massive Red setup around. I want something that has a similar field of view as the Red.

I think that 7d comes extremely close to the Red, with regard to field of view. And could be used as an excellent viewfinder. However, I'd like to have less noise in the image because I might be using this camera as a B-camera.

I am wondering about the 5d also? I love the advantage in low light, but I am not sure if the FF sensor will be effectively similar enough to the Red field of view.

I was looking through some information and it looks like a Red camera 4k 16x9 32mm lens will match up to the Canon 5d MII's 50mm lens at 1.85 aspect ratio. Is this true? So a Canon 5d MII 50mm would be a lot wider than a 50mm on a Red would look? If this is the case, then it might be annoying using the 5d to help me frame, because then I would need to purchase a wider range of Canon EF lenses, which already cost a lot of money.

I wish I had a 5d and a RED Camera in front of me so that I can compare the two, but such is not the case. I'll need your experience on this one.
 
FF will have pretty much nothing in common with the Red's field of view. 7D, however, will be extremely similar.

Yes, a 50mm on a 5D would be a much wider angle field of view than a 50mm on a Red.

If you want a cheap "director's viewfinder" for a cinema-sized frame, a t2i or 7D would do well for that. The 5D is not what you'd want, for that purpose.
 
Barry_Green said:
FF will have pretty much nothing in common with the Red's field of view. 7D, however, will be extremely similar.

Yes, a 50mm on a 5D would be a much wider angle field of view than a 50mm on a Red.

If you want a cheap "director's viewfinder" for a cinema-sized frame, a t2i or 7D would do well for that. The 5D is not what you'd want, for that purpose.
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Right on! You the man Barry!
 
Barry_Green said:
FF will have pretty much nothing in common with the Red's field of view. 7D, however, will be extremely similar.

Yes, a 50mm on a 5D would be a much wider angle field of view than a 50mm on a Red.

If you want a cheap "director's viewfinder" for a cinema-sized frame, a t2i or 7D would do well for that. The 5D is not what you'd want, for that purpose.
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Would lens choice matter? For example, if I compared a 50mm EF lens and a 50mm EF-S lens on a 7d, would it make a difference? Probably not right?
 
The lens choice would not matter, the difference with those two lenses are lens features, not field of view.

If you want something more rugged and durable, go with the 7D. If you want something lighter and a bit smaller, go with the T2i. If you intend on using an external monitor with the HDMI out of the camera, the 7D gives you better live monitoring. Image quality will be virtually the same between the T2i and 7D.

Like Barry said, either the T2i or 7D will have a very similar field of view to the RED.
 
Buy an actual viewfinder and don't waste your money on a 7D (not that the 7D is a waste of money, as I have it and love it -- but it is in this case for the specified purpose).

Hell, you can always do what Ansel Adams did: create an aspect-ratio accurate cutout from a piece of black construction paper or cardboard, and use it as a frame to visualize a scene or perspective before actually moving the rig.
 
I vote for a GH-1

lens sizes aren't 100% accurate but the B-Roll you can get will be better.

Arguably better color
Less Moire
Less Aliasing
flip out articulating LCD
more lens options (including a very easy PL)
somewhat better configurability with the Ptool hack
It's not a Canon product.
 
yakabelly said:
Buy an actual viewfinder and don't waste your money on a 7D (not that the 7D is a waste of money, as I have it and love it -- but it is in this case for the specified purpose).

Hell, you can always do what Ansel Adams did: create an aspect-ratio accurate cutout from a piece of black construction paper or cardboard, and use it as a frame to visualize a scene or perspective before actually moving the rig.
Click to expand...

Could you elaborate on why a 7d would be a waste of money for the purpose of replacing a director's viewfinder? Something like the 7d, where the frame size is similar to film, and can also shoot video while at it, seems like an excellent tool for previewing shots, as well as potentially acting as a B camera. I also plan on shooting projects solely on 7d, as well as doing photo/video storyboards with them as well.

I'm just curious to know if there is a specific reason why you think that it's a waste of money.

While a director's viewfinder gives you great flexibility, a 7d allows you to record and play back images, so there can be a quicker agreement between a director and a cinematographer.
 
The camera itself is not a waste of money. The camera as a replacement for a director's finder is a waste of money, as you can buy a good finder for much less than the price of a 7D plus additional lenses.

If you wish to own a 7D for the purpose of shooting other projects with it, I support you. Personally, I would use a director's finder even if shooting the entire project on a 7D. The finder is simply more practical, as it's always around your neck.

Regarding shooting a photo or a short clip for reference: what reference? Have you already pre-lit the shot that you haven't yet framed? Likely not, unless you're using the same lighting across different camera positions.

As for using the 7D as the project's B camera, know that your mileage may vary. I haven't work with both cameras together, but immediately I can foresee a few issues. The 7D is a great cam, but its picture is mostly predetermined by the picture styles you choose for shooting. You may certainly try to acquire picture styles created by other users that fit the look you're going for, or you may even be brave enough to fiddle around with Canon's picture style editor (which isn't the most intuitive software), but you'll have a very difficult time matching it to the Red's. My fear in such a situation would involve matching the Red's footage to the 7D's, because you couldn't do the converse.

Ultimately, we're all giving opinions here, and yours is supreme for your purposes. I simply don't want you to make a choice you may regret. I do endorse the 7D as a budget indie camera, as I've shot many projects with it and have seldom been disappointed.
 
Why would you even consider buying a body and equivalent lenses to the one's you're using for Red, just to use as a viewfinder?!? What a complete waste of time and money. If your director is serious about knowing what framing he wants, he should buy a proper viewfinder. The DoP should know what lenses and camera distance will give the director his shot. And if you really need it still, get the phone app for it? http://www.chemicalwedding.tv/artemis.html
 
The 7d seems perfect to me

recces, camera positions, continuity - everything the perfect tool on a set

same lenses and FOV - the lense even recorded in the meta data

I didnt used to understand the directors finder at all until I saw these guys positioning their camera :)

_SMM1005.JPG
 
While I shoot a 7D as well, I'd be inclined to get a directors viewfinder as well. Mainly because the size and simplicity and cost, look at some of these:

http://www.duallcamera.com/store/DirectorsViewfinders.shtml

Never needs to be charged. VERY inexpensive compared to the 7D. Usable for different formats based on your needs. As others have said, don't get me wrong, I love my 7D, but for the purpose you speak, it would seem cumbersome. Sure, maybe better than the Red moving it around, but still not ideal.
 
I've had pretty good luck using a film SLR as a viewfinder with the GH1...the 2x crop meant I could just use a double focal length on the SLR...wonder if you could draw on the mirror or something, would prob come out cheaper than a directors viewfinder and let you use your lenses...
 
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