Best Choice For Extensive Greenscreen Shoot?

T

tommygdawg

Well-known member
hey all,

I'm gearing up for a big green screen shoot this summer and I'm trying to figure which direction to go for camera selection. Currently I own an AF100 and a GH1. I've done a fair amount of greenscreen ahooting on the AF and can get decent results, but due to the scale of this project, I want to do it as well as possible. I've been considering numerous options and I was wondering if you all could help. I'm looking to spend no more than $2,500 dollars and due to my location renting is really not feasible. So, should I look into buying an external recorder so I can get 4:2:2 8 bit with my AF100? Or is there a reasonable alternative that can get me 4:2:2 10 bit? Ideally, I'd go for a BMC, but with all the delays, I can't be guaranteed that I'd get one in time.


Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks!
 
Gary Huff said:
Either the BMC or a Samurai recorder.
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Thanks! I'd love to go for the BMC, it's just with the unreliable shipping, I don't know if I should try for that. Do you think the benefits of 4:2:2 over 4:2:0 are really worth the $1,600 for the Samurai? Sadly, I won't get 10bit without picking up a new camera.
 
It will help you grab a cleaner key, and it's easier to work with too. With enough time and talent, anyone can pull a great key from 4:2:0 footage, but that depends on if you want to spend money for that kind of talent.

The BMC will give you the best quality key so far, and I don't see any reason why you can't toss your name into the hat in the meantime and save up for a Samurai in the meantime in case you don't get it.
 
Renting is an option anywhere if you use someone like BorrowLenses. I rented their BMC a few weeks back and it was great. I've used them many times over the past 2 years and their gear is top notch. There are other delivery rental places too.

They have an F3 kit, Scarlet Kit, BMC as I said, and plenty of other camera options.
 
Gary Huff said:
It will help you grab a cleaner key, and it's easier to work with too. With enough time and talent, anyone can pull a great key from 4:2:0 footage, but that depends on if you want to spend money for that kind of talent.

The BMC will give you the best quality key so far, and I don't see any reason why you can't toss your name into the hat in the meantime and save up for a Samurai in the meantime in case you don't get it.
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I can definitely grab a good key from 4:2:0 footage, I've done it many times. It's just a matter of, with this project, wanting to do the best. I can get a good key from 4:2:0, but I'd like to be able to do just a bit better. You make a fair point with the BMC and the Samurai. Heard any good recommendations on the best place to "toss my name into the hat"? From what I gather, they're all about the same.

danjenkins said:
Renting is an option anywhere if you use someone like BorrowLenses. I rented their BMC a few weeks back and it was great. I've used them many times over the past 2 years and their gear is top notch. There are other delivery rental places too.

They have an F3 kit, Scarlet Kit, BMC as I said, and plenty of other camera options.
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I've checked into them, it seems like a great option. My main worry is that, especially with delivery rental places, I won't have enough time to shoot what I need to shoot. I'm worried if I rent it for one weekend, I'll wind up needing it for two or three weekends, and with shipping, I may as well have bought a camera at that point. It's definitely an idea to consider though. Thanks for the input :)
 
tommygdawg said:
I've checked into them, it seems like a great option. My main worry is that, especially with delivery rental places, I won't have enough time to shoot what I need to shoot. I'm worried if I rent it for one weekend, I'll wind up needing it for two or three weekends, and with shipping, I may as well have bought a camera at that point. It's definitely an idea to consider though. Thanks for the input :)
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I think you are overestimating the cost needed to rent the camera for three weekends. $700 isn't quite $2995 + $325 for the cage and rail clamp.

If you want to be up for the pre-order, I'd say Texas Media, Sammy's, B&H, any of those places.
 
Gary Huff said:
I think you are overestimating the cost needed to rent the camera for three weekends. $700 isn't quite $2995 + $325 for the cage and rail clamp.

If you want to be up for the pre-order, I'd say Texas Media, Sammy's, B&H, any of those places.
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Again, you make a fair point. I guess it's just the hassle of all the shipping back and forth, but I suppose it's worth saving the money.
 
I understand the apprehension about shipping being a hassle, but you need not worry about that. At least with borrowlenses, they ship it too you all nicely packed. Lenses in foam inserts and the BMC in it's own Pelican case. You ship it back to them in that same packaging, it seriously takes a minute or two to pack it back up. They provide the shipping label and everything. It's stupid simple. You don't need to get any boxes, packing material or what not. The last time I rented from Samy's it took way longer to get the gear and return it than it took with BL. And I didn't' have to deal with the rental guy trying to upsell me on more gear.
 
HPX250 is just about perfect. AVC-Intra 100 4:2:2 10bit. Great results. This is a "one button push" key done in FCPX. (The funky banding in the background is a result of jpeg compression.) Bra.jpg
 
gkantziper said:
HPX250 is just about perfect. AVC-Intra 100 4:2:2 10bit. Great results.
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I did a huge green screen project with the AF100. If I could do over, Id probably go the 250 route for the refined codec. I would though consider the project content also as a basis of which camera to use.

To op. Im sure you're aware, so I won't preach it, rather a quick point - the effective lighting of a green screen to pull a key plays a major part in the outcome. Subject v distance to screen v quality of lighting v subject lighting.

Green screen always spills. If I can defeat 99% of that before I button, Im in a good place. Is your money better used here?
 
gkantziper said:
HPX250 is just about perfect. AVC-Intra 100 4:2:2 10bit. Great results. This is a "one button push" key done in FCPX. (The funky banding in the background is a result of jpeg compression.) View attachment 68009
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It's more expensive than I'm looking for, but I may consider this as an option. I love the internal 4:2:2 10bit, and it'd be great to have on hand for green screen shoots. Thanks for the input!

Noel Evans said:
I did a huge green screen project with the AF100. If I could do over, Id probably go the 250 route for the refined codec. I would though consider the project content also as a basis of which camera to use.

To op. Im sure you're aware, so I won't preach it, rather a quick point - the effective lighting of a green screen to pull a key plays a major part in the outcome. Subject v distance to screen v quality of lighting v subject lighting.

Green screen always spills. If I can defeat 99% of that before I button, Im in a good place. Is your money better used here?
Click to expand...

I also did a huge greenscreen project recently with the AF100. The results were overall pretty good, but where I was noticing some issues was on things like strands of hair on women. Overall, my screen and everything was lit really well and evenly, so what I'm really looking for is that extra little bit to get the rest of the way now.
 
Actually, you can rent the HPX250 for a weekend for $300, or rent it for a full 3 weeks (that would give you your 3 weekends plus weekdays) for under $900 delivered. (from lensrentals).
 
As someone who has pulled a LOT of keys for low budget commercial projects (many on the HMC150)...

An HPX250 is dynamite. I'd avoid anything DSLR. AVCHD won't kill ya, but an external recorder is nice for keys.

In a pinch, the AC130 can pul very very nice keys. It's got full-raster chips.

And as stated, you need to get really good at lighting a screen and lighting your subject. Do tests with your screen and lights. Find the combo that gets you closest to R:0 G:255 B:0. Test and drop the files into an NLE and check your color levels, or at least use a histogram. Adjust with gels, etc.

Try to create color reference prints in photoshop with your actual background plates or close comps. Print those (I just send files to the drugstore for glossy 8x10's) and use them for reference on set to light your subject. I like to get subject lit as close to final as I can on set.

If using after effects, read the chapter on keying in Mark Christiansen's AE book - priceless.

A RED or BMC should give you much more to work with - I haven't keyed either footage.
 
I'm sorry for my delay in getting back on this. I just wanted to thank you all for the help and suggestions. It's been very useful :)
 
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