I'm currently involved in helping a college start up a media course and I thought it might be interesting to gauge opinion on what everyone thinks the best video camera to teach with might be. The college already has a Mac Lab for it's photography course, so I think they will be getting Final Cut Studio for teaching post production. Ideally the camera would need to be quite reasonably priced but still be easily manually controllable and have useable audio inputs. I'm guessing that most of the DSLRs with video would be too difficult to use with students? Any thoughts?
Best camera for teaching
- Thread starter Spinkhill
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PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
DVX100 would be nearly ideal...
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
The camera can serve as it's own deck. Mine did for a little while until I bought a more industrial unit.
The DVX isn't very expensive, but produces a gorgeous picture. It can shoot 4:3 or 16:9, doesn't have too many controls so it won't overwhelm a newbie. It has XLR inputs and records LPCM audio. Has a nice lens that goes pretty wide, and decently long. It's manual focus, manual iris unlike many cams in it's price range.
If you want to go HD, then the HMC150 is a nice choice. A lot like the DVX but another $2k or so.
You didn't indicate a budget, whether you needed HD, or anything else, so I am just stabbing in the dark here man. Maybe if you give some more details, folk could be more helpful.
The DVX isn't very expensive, but produces a gorgeous picture. It can shoot 4:3 or 16:9, doesn't have too many controls so it won't overwhelm a newbie. It has XLR inputs and records LPCM audio. Has a nice lens that goes pretty wide, and decently long. It's manual focus, manual iris unlike many cams in it's price range.
If you want to go HD, then the HMC150 is a nice choice. A lot like the DVX but another $2k or so.
You didn't indicate a budget, whether you needed HD, or anything else, so I am just stabbing in the dark here man. Maybe if you give some more details, folk could be more helpful.
Yes, sorry, I should have been more specific. 
I have to say that I'm not a fan of using a camera as a deck in an educational environment. Firewire connectors have been the death of at least a couple of cameras and decks in the hands of students I have worked with in the past. As for HD. I didn't realise that cameras that just did SD were still being made? At the moment budget hasn't been talked about, but I can see it either going along the lines of one or two low end professional cameras or a lot of consumer level cameras - if one exists that is manually controllable enough?
I have to say that I'm not a fan of using a camera as a deck in an educational environment. Firewire connectors have been the death of at least a couple of cameras and decks in the hands of students I have worked with in the past. As for HD. I didn't realise that cameras that just did SD were still being made? At the moment budget hasn't been talked about, but I can see it either going along the lines of one or two low end professional cameras or a lot of consumer level cameras - if one exists that is manually controllable enough?
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
Finding new, sub US$1k cameras with manual control just isn't going to happen. So just plan on getting a couple $4k cams or 1 $4k cam and 2 $2k cameras though nothing springs to mind in that price range.
You want something that shoots to CompactFlash, SDHC, or maybe tape if you have to. The DVX is probably the cheapest camera out there with fully manual controls. Which is why it sold like hot cakes, and is STILL selling. It can take a beating, it makes good pictures, and it won't break the bank.
You want something that shoots to CompactFlash, SDHC, or maybe tape if you have to. The DVX is probably the cheapest camera out there with fully manual controls. Which is why it sold like hot cakes, and is STILL selling. It can take a beating, it makes good pictures, and it won't break the bank.
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
Not a chance.
Save yourself a ton of grief... Log and Transfer into ProRes.
Nick Walters
Mentholated Member
I have to put in my vote for the DVX-100. This is the holy grail of the film making teaching tools. The only other cameras I could suggest would be Super 8.
I would bet on the following :
2 DVX-100's
2 low end mini-dv camcorders(el-cheapo)*
2 light kits(also need gels, duvatyne, clothes pins, etc, etc.)
2 boom mics
*These are to never be moved, used for filming, etc...these will LIVE beside computers as mini-dv decks.
The course should progress...from pure theory, to eventually more advanced theory capped off with using the DVX for silent films, and finally to advanced digital theory and filming using the DVX-100.
Don't go overboard on the camera's just because you feel they need to be "high end" or something....the DVX does everything you need for teaching :
1. Manual control of the most important stuff(iris, zoom, focus)
2. good xlr audio
3. great image
4. a standard 24 frames per second
The manual control is super important....this camera has it, and it'll get students ready to use higher end equipment....once you've used a dvx it's easy to slip into a HVX-200, HPX-300, or HPX-500....albeit there's even MORE control, but this is a good thing...progression is important or you'll overwhelm someone, but you atleast need to teach manual iris, zoom, focus.
The audio is SUPER important, as you need to get these folks prepared for recording seperate audio...In fact if it were me I would be trying to get a seperate audio recorder and mixer, as this would be teaching with a more real world setup.
The image is of course important, as you want your students to have a tool which, when used correctly will produce good results...it's good for morale...an the DVX is DEFINITELY capable of providing.
The 24 frames per second is majorly important, because this can enable you to better teach every level of post.....
This camera can be slightly crippled to if you want to teach more advanced filming....you can make a DVX act more like a film camera by not allowing the students to use the white balance, thus forcing them to more heavily use filtration, like one would need to do with a film camera and it's lighting
I could go on and on and on on what you need, how these tools could be used for teaching, etc....but much of this has that "duh" factor(extra batteries, camera filters, hard cases, tripods, etc. etc. etc.)....for a complete list of needed supplies I would ask a fellow school for their inventory list and suggestions.
I would bet on the following :
2 DVX-100's
2 low end mini-dv camcorders(el-cheapo)*
2 light kits(also need gels, duvatyne, clothes pins, etc, etc.)
2 boom mics
*These are to never be moved, used for filming, etc...these will LIVE beside computers as mini-dv decks.
The course should progress...from pure theory, to eventually more advanced theory capped off with using the DVX for silent films, and finally to advanced digital theory and filming using the DVX-100.
Don't go overboard on the camera's just because you feel they need to be "high end" or something....the DVX does everything you need for teaching :
1. Manual control of the most important stuff(iris, zoom, focus)
2. good xlr audio
3. great image
4. a standard 24 frames per second
The manual control is super important....this camera has it, and it'll get students ready to use higher end equipment....once you've used a dvx it's easy to slip into a HVX-200, HPX-300, or HPX-500....albeit there's even MORE control, but this is a good thing...progression is important or you'll overwhelm someone, but you atleast need to teach manual iris, zoom, focus.
The audio is SUPER important, as you need to get these folks prepared for recording seperate audio...In fact if it were me I would be trying to get a seperate audio recorder and mixer, as this would be teaching with a more real world setup.
The image is of course important, as you want your students to have a tool which, when used correctly will produce good results...it's good for morale...an the DVX is DEFINITELY capable of providing.
The 24 frames per second is majorly important, because this can enable you to better teach every level of post.....
This camera can be slightly crippled to if you want to teach more advanced filming....you can make a DVX act more like a film camera by not allowing the students to use the white balance, thus forcing them to more heavily use filtration, like one would need to do with a film camera and it's lighting
I could go on and on and on on what you need, how these tools could be used for teaching, etc....but much of this has that "duh" factor(extra batteries, camera filters, hard cases, tripods, etc. etc. etc.)....for a complete list of needed supplies I would ask a fellow school for their inventory list and suggestions.
Nick Walters
Mentholated Member
I'll actually elaborate in two ways
the DVX is basic DV, and as such doesn't need a powerful computer to edit, manipulate, etc. By going with a standard def DV camera you can use an off the shelf computer in much the same way as we pros deal with higher resolutions with bigger faster computers. By going to high end you'll need faster computers, more storage, and likely more waiting while video renders....you'll get the results alot quicker by going with a basic DV setup such as the DVX-100(you wouldn't ask an architecture student to learn by building a whole house, you'd have him work in scale, this is the same thing).
Now for 24fps. The DVX-100 has an option to film in 24pa mode, which basically makes it so that this camera can film 24 seperate frames each second. Many othr cameras do NOT do this, and because of this the results in post can be degraded quickly....24fps is what we pros often do.
When using 24pa mode once you import your footage it's possible to manipulate individual frames.....think of the DVX like a way to cheat yourself into a setup like a film camera...film cameras record seperate pictures(duh), while off the shelf el-cheapo cameras record interlaced footage:
http://hubpages.com/hub/interlaced-vs-progressive
Interlaced works fine for home movies and such(stuff that doesn't need heavy editing or post), but IMHO it isn't worth the sweat from my brow in a pro environment anymore(unless the client asks for it).
Imagine it like being asked to paint a car, and someone gave you half of two different cars that are the same model...it isn't much worth the trouble if you ask me...now give me one full car, and it isn't so difficult to slap on a paint job.
Edit: So in conclusion the DVX gives you the best of both worlds for teaching : 1) Basic DV that can be edited and manipulated in post with low-end computers 2)24fps which in the past could only be acheivd by high end equipment such as multi-tens of thousands of dollar video cameras, or film cameras that require expensive film and processing.....it's sort of a sweet spot
the DVX is basic DV, and as such doesn't need a powerful computer to edit, manipulate, etc. By going with a standard def DV camera you can use an off the shelf computer in much the same way as we pros deal with higher resolutions with bigger faster computers. By going to high end you'll need faster computers, more storage, and likely more waiting while video renders....you'll get the results alot quicker by going with a basic DV setup such as the DVX-100(you wouldn't ask an architecture student to learn by building a whole house, you'd have him work in scale, this is the same thing).
Now for 24fps. The DVX-100 has an option to film in 24pa mode, which basically makes it so that this camera can film 24 seperate frames each second. Many othr cameras do NOT do this, and because of this the results in post can be degraded quickly....24fps is what we pros often do.
When using 24pa mode once you import your footage it's possible to manipulate individual frames.....think of the DVX like a way to cheat yourself into a setup like a film camera...film cameras record seperate pictures(duh), while off the shelf el-cheapo cameras record interlaced footage:
http://hubpages.com/hub/interlaced-vs-progressive
Interlaced works fine for home movies and such(stuff that doesn't need heavy editing or post), but IMHO it isn't worth the sweat from my brow in a pro environment anymore(unless the client asks for it).
Imagine it like being asked to paint a car, and someone gave you half of two different cars that are the same model...it isn't much worth the trouble if you ask me...now give me one full car, and it isn't so difficult to slap on a paint job.
Edit: So in conclusion the DVX gives you the best of both worlds for teaching : 1) Basic DV that can be edited and manipulated in post with low-end computers 2)24fps which in the past could only be acheivd by high end equipment such as multi-tens of thousands of dollar video cameras, or film cameras that require expensive film and processing.....it's sort of a sweet spot
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Nick Walters
Mentholated Member
I also wouldn't ignore super8 as a format for teaching...the cameras are cheap, the editors are cheap(basic ones), and the meters aren't to crazy expensive(certainly older analogue meters{I myself own a very useful antique color temperature guage and exposure meter}) and the student can be charged for the film/processing. Many institutions start their students off with making silent films with super8, and then eventually move them on to the digital world. Super8 has the advantage of forcing a student to think out their shots, use proper filtration, think out the lighting, and give them a hands on approach to editing....often throwing a digital camera at a student gives them too much of an ability to film just about anything, thus giving them bad habits early on.