Beholder EC1 Gimbal

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SuperMachoAlpha

Member
Does anyone have (or has ordered) the Beholder EC1 gimbal? Is it any good? From looking at the specs, on paper, it annihilates every other single handle gimbal. It claims a 5 pound payload capacity, 20+ hour battery life, no PID needed, and at $900. I have never used a product by Beholder like the DS1 or MS1 but I have heard good things about them and some mixed reviews. Do you guys think this gimbal would be a good purchase? I had pre-ordered a Pilotfly H2 but cancelled due to so many users reporting issues with the PID software. I have also checked the Came-TV Optimus but it only has a payload capacity of about 2.5 pounds. What do you guys think of the EC1? I have a sony A7Sii with a Metabones Mark IV and a Tamron 24-70 and I am hoping this gimbal would be good for my set up.
 
I skeptical that any of these are any better than the other. They all use the same software from Basecam (SimpleBGC). So they will all have the same behaviors. I haven't seen any documentation that the EC1 uses the SimpleBGC, but the DS1 does. So there is no reason to believe they started writing their own code.

As far as weight ratings, they can put any number they like as a rating. Who's to say it's legit. Remember that the H2 has twice the load rating as the Optimus, yet it weighs the same amount. How is that possible?

Regarding 'no PID needed', that's a bit of a misnomer. It has PID settings, but in the 32 bit version, Basecam is touting that they have an adaptive PID that is supposed to deal with vibrations. Yet we've read that people are still having issues with vibrations.

http://www.basecamelectronics.com/simplebgc32tiny/
 
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One thing that differentiates this gimbal from other similar gimbals including the DS1 is that it includes encoders on the motors. In theory this should allow the gimbal's software to detect the position of the motors and correct for problems such as the camera being knocked out of position, horizon not level, and should make it easier for the software to automatically determine the best PID settings. Whether this all works well together will depend on the software implementation. But from watching videos demonstrating other gimbals with and without encoders it looks as though their inclusion can make for a significant improvement. It's got me putting the EC1 on my shortlist while I wait for more reviews and reports.
 
Yes, the encoders are certainly a beneficial feature. They enable long battery life. I was expecting them to fix the vibration issue. But even with the encoders, customers are having issues. The Pilotfly H2 (below) uses the same 32bit SimpleBGC software as everyone else. It has encoders. It has vibration issues. So there is no reason to believe the EC1 will be any better. Same software, same encoders, one has to expect the same results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9imWwcYkLT0
 
I'm wondering if the vibrations come from the encoders or the design of the unit. The Optimus (from the very few videos I have seen) doesn't seem to have these micro vibrations. The Pilotfly seems terrible, even the craftsmanship looks like it was done by an amateur-because of that I would suspect the design might have something to do with it as well. However, there are many other contributing factors to the possible cause of those vibrations, such as overloading the unit, improper balance, user error, etc... I will order an EC1 to see how it works out.
 
I have a DS1 and my experience is that the vibrations come from not matching motor power to load weight closely enough.
I use primarily the Blackmagic Pocket camera with 2 lenses that are pretty close in weight, and then I use a Samsung NX1, again with usually 2 lenses that are pretty close in weight. Fortunately the DS1 has TWO different weight presets that are toggled between with just a couple button pushes.

I went into the PID software and adjusted the motor power for each of the 2 presets and now vibrations are nearly gone completely. It took a few tries to get it into the right power range - but still far less time than setting up and learning a sled-vest-arm steadycam style rig.
 
I noticed that the address listed on the OwlDolly (a Beholder EC1 vendor) Facebook page is not far from me. I wonder if they'd let me drop by with camera and lenses and give the device a try. When my workload lets up I may give them a holler.
 
nyvz said:
Mine is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow, so I'll hopefully have some more info soon...
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If you could provide us with info and your first impressions that would be very helpful. I placed my order as well. Hopefully I receive one since the availability on their website was 3 units when I ordered it. If I do receive it this week I will also post information about it for everyone. I really hope the EC1 turns out better than the other single handle gimbals. It would really help when filming in tight spaces.
 
SuperMachoAlpha said:
I'm wondering if the vibrations come from the encoders or the design of the unit. .
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The answer is yes, they can. I've been doing more reading. Any slop in the bearings and any lack of rigidity in the gimbal structure will send bad information to the motion sensor and can drive the software to instability.

I am retracting my skepticism about one gimbal not being better than the other given they all use the same software.
 
I wrote the vendor (OwlDolly) asking if there was any chance I could drop by and try out the gimbal. No word yet.

Anyone receive theirs? I'm hoping soon we start to see footage that's not just the designer/manufacturer testing the device in a workshop.
 
zachnfine said:
I wrote the vendor (OwlDolly) asking if there was any chance I could drop by and try out the gimbal. No word yet.

Anyone receive theirs? I'm hoping soon we start to see footage that's not just the designer/manufacturer testing the device in a workshop.
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I received mine today. I balanced my A6300 perfectly but I get a lot of vertical, bouncy movements. No vibrations or issues. I think the tilt motor power was pre-configured at a low setting because it wobbles a lot. With my Ronin M it worked smoothly right out of the box. I am afraid of plugging the EC1 to the PID software. I don't want to mess it up. Any one with single handle gimbal experience might know why I get alot of wobble from the tilt motor or how I can solve this issue?
 
Thanks guys. I'm still wrestling with this thing. From what I found out, the motors seem loose. The Ronin ones seem solid. I definitely need to use the PID software. The version that Owldolly showed on their website (2.59 b8) is nowhere to be found so I downloaded the "latest version" and I can't get it to connect to the gimbal. I know for sure I'm missing something.
 
With SimpleBGC I think you should always use whatever version matches the firmware on your gimbal. Gotta find 2.59 b8. I did see this mention of it:

sorry, but i dont find firm. 2.58 b8 in GUI, upgrade, check beta
The last firm is 2.59b9 but it doesn't has the PWM types and I2C types of encoders for yaw
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So maybe if you download an earlier version, run it, find a spot in its preferences to enable updates to beta versions, and then you can update to 2.59b8?

Hopefully you hear back from the vendor.
 
I e-mailed Team Rebel Designs support and haven't heard from them. The unit works fine and all but the issue is in the motor tolerance. It just seems too loose. I tried my a6300 with the 16-50 kit lens (super light combination) and I still get terrible wobbles from the tilt motor and I try walking as carefully as possible. I'm not even kidding when I say that my handheld footage is far more stable in comparison.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by wobble. But try adjusting the pitch motor power level up and observe the results. The higher you go, the more power you burn and the hotter the motors get. So only adjust it up as much as is necessary.
 
Paul F said:
I'm not sure what you mean by wobble. But try adjusting the pitch motor power level up and observe the results. The higher you go, the more power you burn and the hotter the motors get. So only adjust it up as much as is necessary.
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Thanks, Paul. I mean like an up and down motion from the tilt motor. Would the PID adjustments help remedy that?
 
It might need a PID adjustment, but it sounds more like it needs a power adjustment. The controller has a setting for what the maximum power level can be sent to each motor. If the setting is low, then the controller won't be able to send enough power to the motor to control changes and so it will wobble. I'd look at this first.

But it could also be the P, I, and D setting. Read the link I sent and you will see what each of the P, I, and D settings control. It has a nice simple explanation and it will guide you as to how to adjust the settings based on what you are seeing.

By the way, tilt is not a clear term in the gimbal world. Use 'pitch' for when the camera lens aims up and down (what you would call tilt on a tripod move). Use 'roll' for when the camera rotates its left and right sides up and down (like a plane doing a wave with its wings). Use 'yaw' for when the camera pans left or right.
 
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