BEGINNER needs HELP with equipment for Af100 - Thank You

M

mproust14

Active member
Hi everyone,

I’ve been reading these forums for several months now and have only recently decided to join. I guess I just needed some advice on the basic elements of film equipment, which, up until now, my general reading hasn’t afforded me. And in this respect, the quality of my questions will no doubt be broad, and their answers open to debate. I can only hope to be given a general overview of the particulars so I can conduct my own research into the field.
Before I begin, let me preface my enquiries by giving you a picture or indication of my background in the field:

My inception into film making was a purely artistic one. I had, and still have, little to no knowledge of film equipment, set-up, design, and the like. Nevertheless, my short films have managed to win numerous film festivals, albeit of the local variety – with all the shorts conjured (somehow) with the most budget of cameras and equipment.
Now, I am under no illusion that I cannot progress at this level of professionalism. For me to progress, I comprehend that I need to improve both my knowledge and equipment – which I am dedicated in doing, however long it may take.
This is where you guys come in. I need a camera and equipment that can potentially create film quality pictures that can be entered into film festivals. This seems broad, but let me narrow the field. I have been working tirelessly for the last year and have saved myself 15k. My camera of choice is the AF100. The rest is in the air.
The extent of my knowledge is this:
Camera – Af100 (open to suggestions)
Lens (the best one possible)?
Perhaps an adaptor?
Matte box and attachment?
I know I need a tripod?
I want a steadicam type system as well (glidecam with remote follow focus?) OR some type of shoulder brace – I don’t want to over complicate matters.
I need a microphone?
Something to capture the video uncompressed?
Editing software?


What else I need, I do not know. But I do know I’m missing something.

Your help would be greatly appreciated, even if it is of the kind that directs me to other help. Thank you in advance for ignoring my own ignorance.

Also, I'm from Australia.
 
hey mate.. just a little bit about what i've done, it may help you?? lol


I bought things prematurely because of what i read on these posts. im not saying that its a bad thing, but i made choices to buy things based on the advice given by very experienced operaters. even before i knew how to turn the camera on lol

The only thing i can truly advise you purchase first along with the camera, would be Barry Greens book and DVD.. before the AF100 my only experience was with the canon xl1.. working with lenses is a completely different ball game, im lucky to have a lot of time to play around and learn so im getting the hang of it slowly

i also purchased a steadicam, and now that will probably stay in the box for a few more months until i get the hang of operating the basics of the camera.. (focusing, exposure etc.)

if i could go back a few months, i probably would of just got the camera with the free 14-140mm lumix lens. barrys book and barrys dvd. set aside a week or 7 and studied, practised and practice some more. i think if i had done this, i would of changed a few other purchases, but also felt more confident in looking for specific lenses and accessories. i tried to purchase a set of lenses that would cover everthing, but as you know filming is specific to the story, to the operaters style and taste so knwoing the limitations of the camera beforehand will help make your choices in lenses easy and may save you some money.

im also in australia mate, so its not easy getting a good price for the gear over here. i purchased everything online, some people very kindly put down lower prices on expensive gear so i didnt have to pay ridiculous import tax lol.. dodgy i know but so is australian tax laws so yeah oh well..

heres a list of my gear, i can't say that its the best, because i haven't filmed anything since i got it all lol, i work away so its hard,
but i hope it helps, all the best.

af103
panasonic lumix 14-45
tokina 11-16mm nikon moun
nikon 35mm 1.8
nikon 50mm 1.4
nikon 70-200mm 2.8
voigtlander nikon adapter (don't cheap out and buy a chinese model!!! TRUST ME!! lol)
manfrotto 546 tripod 519Head
RODE NTG2 mic
proaim mattebox with rod support
proaim steadicam setup (replaced all the nuts n screws, as advised by a dvxuser member)
CS5

cheers. go the all blacks!
 
We started from square one with building our AF-100 rig and ordered multiple items in each category and ended up returning or not using what we didn't like. This is what we ended up with in order to get the best equipment for the $$$ as well as keep the rig light and managebale...

AF-100 Camera
Zeiss Cine-modded ZF Lenses (18, 25, 50, 85)
Voitlander F to MFT lend adapter
Oconnor O-box mattebox w/ belows and Chrosziel rubber ring
Oconnor Universal Baseplate
Redrock Micro Carbon fiber rods
Redrock Micro V3 Follow Focus - I'm not that impressed with this FF though
Small HD DP6 w/ HD-SDI Field Monitor (this is a MUST)
Kessler Crane K-pod, 8' Crane, Sliders etc...
Adobe CS5.5 Production Premium for editing

FYI: After seeing the quality of the image we can get, we didn't go with an external recorder. Since we shoot for Blu-ray, DVD and DD, we saw that it really wasn't necessary. The native AVCHD is actually quite amazing (compares to about 50mb/s Mpeg2) and an external recorder only adds weight to the rig. also, with everytyhing you're listing, you're going to go way over $15k. Things like a steady cam with remote FF is a little overkill if you ask me. Not to mention that's not even possible. the motion from the FF would knock the balance off on the steady cam. Just get a $500 crane instead and get some nice shots from it. You'll quickly realize things like a $4k Chrosziel follow focus really didn't get you any better looking shots than that $800 Redrock follow focus... or even a $150 D focus. I've seen some very impressive shots here in the forums with equipment that was on the cheap. If your goal is film festivals, then worry more about what is it your going to film (and story!!) then things like remote control follow focuses. We actually submited a film this year shot in Israel on a DVX100b and it was nominated for best documentary and won best editing. Keep that in mind.
 
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Hi fellow Aussie,
For what it's worth, I've found the AF102 to be a fine camera. Consistently produces a great picture. There are, however, lots of cameras that will get great pictures. What I liked about the AF102 was the ability to produce film-like images, shallow depth of field, as well as being more complicated than some of the others (ie: I was willing to learn how the pros do it). If you're going for the AF102, you'll want some of the stuff you've listed, like tripod, FF, rails etc. A steadicam would be nice, and by all means see what you can find, but I'd leave that til the end, or at least til you're comfortable with the camera. I'm looking at getting a shoulder mount type thing myself , which is considerably less than a steadicam. This stuff is all horrendously expensive if you're not working regular paying jobs.

The lenses I have are almost exlcusively Canon FDs because they're cheap, and there is lots of them. I mostly get mine from Adorama. Nikons get a good write-up here, but I've found them to be about double the price (which isn't bad anyway). I'd recommend the 14-140mm from Panasonic to get you started. It's slow and be careful of changing light while shooting (I've heard it handles this badly by auto adjusting it's exposure), but gives you quite a large focal range. Get it from BH Photo (or elsewhere online) as it's half the price as in Australia (which really sucks. $1400 AUS vs $800 US). I have the Canon FD and Nikon adapter from Novoflex, and they're great. Expensive, but great. Others have reported good experiences with cheaper adapters as well.

There are native M4/3 lenses such as Olympus, Panasonic and some Voigtlander ones that work with the AF102, but for everything else you'll want an adapter. Generally, non-Panasonic M4/3 lenses won't talk to the camera (like the Voigtlander and Olympus ones), but you won't need an adapter to use them.

I wouldn't worry about a matte-box at the moment. It's useful, but not necessary immediately. If you want to use manual focus lenses, you'll need a follow focus to get the best results, which means you'll also want rails. I've found it difficult to find a decent, cheap set of rails and FF. A FF for $1000+? Absolute madness. A tripod is a necessity. Handheld can be a useful style when desired, but it's hard to watch all the time.

For video capture, the camera records to SD card, so you'll need an SD card reader. It comes through as AVCCHD, although you can capture to an external recorder. I personally wouldn't bother unless you're planning to do some green screen stuff. I got mine from Ted's, and it's fine. About $30. Make sure the one you get can read all cards - including SDHC & SDXC or whatever the 64G cards are. I've got my cards from B&H Photo - about $60 for a 32GB class 10. You'll want a class 10 card for the slow-mo footage the AF102 can do. I'd recommend the known brands, Lexar, SanDisk etc.

For video editing, it depends on your platform. Mac = Final Cut Pro. Windoze = Adobe, or Sony, or some other one. I have Sony Movie Studio (the cheap version). It's okay, but crashes a bit. I'll be getting Adobe soon myself.

I have an NTG-3 Rode mic. Expensive, but a decent mic. Sennhesier is also okay. The on-board mic is pretty good, but you'll want something better for professional results.

Anyway. I hope that helps. Above all, all you ultimately need is a camera and a great story to tell (and you can always rent a camera).
 
Hi Leonytis,
How have you found the Proaim kit? I've seen some tempting gear on ebay, but was wondering about quality, are they reliable etc? I'm after a FF/rails and a shouldermount setup. They have some quite cheap, and I know that the quality might not be as good as Redrock etc.

Go the Wallabies!
 
Honestly? I don't think you should get an AF100. In fact, buying an AF100 I think would be a very bad idea.

You have $15k AUD (which I think is on par with the USD more or less). The AF100 in the US is going to set you back almost $5k without lenses. Plus lenses, decent tripod, batteries... suddenly you've dropped $10k on a decent camera setup, and haven't touched lighting, or editing software, or the like.

You've admitted that your camera knowledge is almost non-existent. With non-existent knowledge, learning the AF100 is going to be a steep learning curve. It's akin to not knowing how to drive and trying to become NASCAR driver immediately, or trying to play Major league Baseball without ever having learned how to swing a bat. I think you would be much better served buying an HMC150 (or if you can wait a few months an AC130). All you really lose is shallow depth of field. And honestly, at your admitted skill level shallow DoF is the least of your worries. There is so much more to using a camera than DoF. Too many people get way too hung up on it without realizing it's just a tool in your toolbox that often times you can get away without using. Plus, it'll save you a few thousand dollars that would be much better spent on lights and audio and a decent computer to edit on.

Learn to use a camera on an HMC150/AC130, then when you feel comfortable, sell it and buy an AF100.
 
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If you really want that shallow DOP and ability to change lenses, then maybe start out on a DSLR? Get a Panasonic GH2 for $1,500 (includes Lumix 14-140 lens) and all of the other gear you get for it can also be used on future cameras i.e. lenses, mattebox, rods etc... the GH2 provides a good image for beginner film makers and we actually use 2 of them for our B-cams. Check vimeo for short films actually shot entirely on GH2's.

For exmaple, here's one of our B-cam rigs and the entire thing runs about $3,200. Then all you need is tripod, jib etc...

Ingenuity_B-cam.jpg


It consists of...

GH2 DSLR
Lumix 14-140 lens
Redorck Micro cage
DP4 field monitor
Lumix Mic.

Hope this helps?
 
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I agree, I think the DSLR option is also a smart idea. You won't have some of the features on a GH2 that you would on the AF100 (or HMC150/AC130) like XLR inputs or a waveform monitor... but as Kindredmachine points out, you save a bunch of money (which you can pocket or put towards other stuff), and many of the accessories can be transferred to an AF100 eventually. And if you're just learning, the basic Video 101-type stuff like composing a shot and whatnot is going to be the same.
 
I would hook-up with a local indie-film group near you. Don't know if Australia has these . but (around here)
there are "Meet-up" web groups that concentrate on various aspects .. film-making, etc etc.

They can be very helpful and you can leverage a wealth of experience from people that can explain
things in detail.

A forum (like this) doesn't lend itself well to the "ground-up" learning that you're going through.

With the right mentor, maybe a AF100 is a great choice for you .. maybe a 5DMKII is ...
the camera choice isn't nearly as important as hooking up with the people that can help
you get where you wish to go.

Just my opinion,
jeff
 
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The beauty of the AF100 is that you can start simple and grow it to suite your needs. Once you have the body, it is light enough that you can start off with a relatively inexpensive support (like a bogen 503 head), and a set of lenses and go from there. I like the older nikkors, and you can get them pretty cheap (I got my initial set of 6 nikons (11-16mm f/2.8, 24mm f/2.8, 35mm f/1.4, 50mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.4, 135mm f/2.8) for under $2K), which will cover pretty much everything (not to mention the nikons will last you well into your next camera, and you can get a nikon mount for pretty much any camera), and then build up from there based on what you feel you need. You don't need a FF, Mattebox, steadi-cam, etc, right off the bat (most people shooting with out an AC often find it easier to just focus on the lens), and frankly your money would be better spent on lighting if you want the most bang for buck. Anyway, I know it is tempting to order everything you think you want right away, but unless you know EXACTLY what you are going to shoot and how you are going to shoot it, it is really best to start with the basics and then get the speciality items as you need them, and then you will be better set to know what you need and really want.
 
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evanrm said:
Hi Leonytis,
How have you found the Proaim kit? I've seen some tempting gear on ebay, but was wondering about quality, are they reliable etc? I'm after a FF/rails and a shouldermount setup. They have some quite cheap, and I know that the quality might not be as good as Redrock etc.

Go the Wallabies!
Click to expand...


haha ALL BLACKS ALL THE WAY!! gee i hope they don't choke.. again lol

ive found the quality very good, i was expecting a cheap product because of the price, i am a noob so it was mainly for learning purposes, i was very suprised at the quality. this is the only set ive ever had, so i could not compare with the redrock or others, i read through previous posts on this site, and also youtube reviews before making the purchase, and they do seem to be very reliable, the company is easy to deal with, and if there is anything faulty, they are pretty quick to get a replacement out to you. i had the handles missing, and they apologised and sent them through very quickly.

the redrock and others are top of the line products, so id say they were alot better and have a few more lil features that make them easier to use. im happy with my proaim kit though :)
 
Thanks for the advice everyone. It seems the general opinion is to keep it simple. Camera, Lens and tripod, and let the story do the work for you. The question then becomes, which camera would be the best for my situation. Which camera would allow me optimal performance within the reach of my knowledge. Some of you have stated that the af100 is a poor option in this respect. I personally want to avoid the dslr option. And quite frankly dof isn't all too important.

So it appears as though the ac130 could be a good option for me; or maybe something like the Sony HVR-Z7 - something like this: http://www.videoguys.com.au/Shop/p/...-camcorder-production-kit-vg-hvrz7p-prod.html. (am I allowed to post links?) Are these good options? What do they entail?

Thanks
 
mproust14 said:
So it appears as though the ac130 could be a good option for me; or maybe something like the Sony HVR-Z7 - something like this: http://www.videoguys.com.au/Shop/p/...-camcorder-production-kit-vg-hvrz7p-prod.html. (am I allowed to post links?) Are these good options? What do they entail?

Thanks
Click to expand...

The HVR-Z7 is a HDV (i.e. tape based) camera using an older and poorer codec -- a backwards technology to be investing in today, IMHO.

I would add to your list the Sony NX5U or, at the lower end, the Panny HMC40 and HMC80.

- Greg
 
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