Bechdel test for women in film

Batutta

Batutta

Major Contributor
Interesting how few movies actually pass this test--
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I AGREE
 
And in the same spirit, my tests for other minority characters--

Black characters

1. Is there more than one black character with a name?
2. Are they something more than a colorful sidekick to the protagonist?
3. Do they live to the end credits?

Hispanics

1. Is there more than one Hispanic character with a name?
2. Is that name something other than Jose or Maria?
3. Do they play something other than housekeepers, gardeners or cholos?

Asians

1. Is there more than one Asian character with a name?
2. Do they not perform martial arts?
3. Is their accent NOT the subject of ridicule?
 
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"Do they live to the end?" Nope not in a Sci-Fi or horror film. If you ain't the black kid from that Jason flick (or was it Halloween?) or Will Smith (and even he died at the end of I am Legend but that was to save the world so I'll let that one go). Sometimes you may live to the end if you're in a zombie movie but even in films with two black character, they will usually end up dying to save a white guy/girl/group. Check the Jason film where he goes to space (yeah, I know) or better yet the film "Legion". Great movie, Charles Dutton's character was great, Tyrese Gibson's character was too "hood". Both of them was were great black characters. What made them great? By Hollywood's standards they died saving white folks who are oh so important because no else can save the world (Will Smith or Jet Li maybe).

Even in comics like Y the last man, there can be NO trace of black folks. The black astronaut, died, the baby that survived was that of the white dude and even the black female who lived through the whole series (to protect the white guy) died. And just incase she had lived the writers had her stabbed in the stomach issues back so she wasn't able to have kids, just to insure the white male who was falling in love with her would never spawn with a black female, never that. (Remember, one of the main theme of Y the Last Man was repopulation). Also the Asian woman was lesbian so a no go with her too. So add "White male lead can't spawn with inferior ethnic characters in Sci-Fi" to your list. And while "Y the Last Man" was an incredible story, the eugenics overtone was a bit much and a little too obvious. Clone a white Ubberman so all the chicks can screw him and have nice white babies. Also in comics, as a Captain America fan it always stood out in the back of my mind that the Capt Ap was the very same idea as Hitler's ubberman. The only difference what he stood for. Blonde hair, blue eyes and pushed to the tip top level a human can be. Go figure.

This is why most of the characters in my films are ethics. Even in my next film which has a lot of Jewish character, we're going with dark skinned Jews. Nothing against white people but sci-fi/horror films just worship them a bit too much. Are other races not important enough for a white person to sacrifice themselves for? Can one black guy or girl live to the end. Are white people, Asians who know incredible martial arts, or sometimes Will Smith, the only capable people in the world? I think not.

If you think this is a mad black guy rant, check out "The Last Airbender". The mostly Asian and Ethic cast are all white suddenly. (Remember this was an Asian cartoon). This isn't a joke. The lead is even white and he's playing what is essentially an Asian character. (I thought David Carradine left us awhile ago). Angelina Jolie played Fox in "Wanted" who was a black female in the comic book. The writer wanted Halle Berry to play that role. Aside from general hotness Halle and Angie look nothing alike. Nick Fury is black in the Marvel Ultimates line of comics (the comics Marvel base their movies on) and people actually have a problem with Sam Jackson playing the role. They want white Nick Fury, even if he's black in the comics. But no problem with white Fox.

But wait until my next film. @$$ whoopings are gonna be handed out all around and by a black guy (that will be me by the way if you haven't guessed) and evil will fall. One white dude may help out because he's the character's buddy, but the brother will live until the end on this one, believe that.

-Nate
 
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Maybe the screenwriters confuse the fact that black people make up about 15% of the US population (is that the correct figure...?) with only allowing them to survive to the end credits 15% of the time...

...and one word: Shaft. Not enough Shaft-ness, in the world.

What *is* Richard Roundtree doing these days, anyway? I bet that if his career had begun about fifteen years later, today he would be a major star...
 
Richard Roundtree was in Heroes for a while, and Speed Racer.

Oh, let's not forget the gays--

1. Is there even one gay character with a name?
2. Are they something other than the hilarious sidekick to a romantic comedy heroine?
3. Do they give ANYONE a makeover?
 
Nathyn said:
Even in comics like Y the last man, there can be NO trace of black folks. The black astronaut, died, the baby that survived was that of the white dude and even the black female who lived through the whole series (to protect the white guy) died. And just incase she had lived the writers had her stabbed in the stomach issues back so she wasn't able to have kids, just to insure the white male who was falling in love with her would never spawn with a black female, never that. (Remember, one of the main theme of Y the Last Man was repopulation). Also the Asian woman was lesbian so a no go with her too. So add "White male lead can't spawn with inferior ethnic characters in Sci-Fi" to your list. And while "Y the Last Man" was an incredible story, the eugenics overtone was a bit much and a little too obvious. Clone a white Ubberman so all the chicks can screw him and have nice white babies. Also in comics, as a Captain America fan it always stood out in the back of my mind that the Capt Ap was the very same idea as Hitler's ubberman. The only difference what he stood for. Blonde hair, blue eyes and pushed to the tip top level a human can be. Go figure.
-Nate
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Wow. U just totally warped my view of one of my fav comic series.

Valid points, but a bit of a stretch I think. Kinda like the guys view of Star Wars in Chasing Amy.

BTW, wasn't 355 a lesbian as well?
 
Nathyn said:
"Do they live to the end?" Nope not in a Sci-Fi or horror film. If you ain't the black kid from that Jason flick (or was it Halloween?) or Will Smith (and even he died at the end of I am Legend but that was to save the world so I'll let that one go). Sometimes you may live to the end if you're in a zombie movie but even in films with two black character, they will usually end up dying to save a white guy/girl/group.
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Not to defend the trend, but at least there was Snipes as Blade and Danny Glover from Predator 2, although I don't know if I buy Danny Glover being able to take down a Predator. Nothing to do with Glover's race, but Arnold barely took down the pred, so it was a big stretch for anyone else to be able to. Maybe Dolph Lundgren?

Then there is Morpheus and Niobe in the Matrix trilogy. They both survived to the end while playing important parts (I guess Morpheus could be looked at as a sidekick, but he was the mentor character, which is not small thing). Actually, an interesting element of the Matrix trilogy is that the resistance was made up of a multicultural group, while the oppressive machines were overly clean cut white dudes, even the pompous Merovingian.

Yes, there was the sequence from the first Matrix where they made the audience think that Morpheus was going to die, which is one of the rules of the Joseph Campbell Hero Myth arc that Hollywood worships, and then they have Neo save him and subvert that rule too. In Star Wars they killed off Obi Wan in the first film.

As far as I remember, didn't Ving Rhames survive Dawn of the Dead? And let's face it, he was the most capable character in that film when it came to taking down zombies.

I know, not a great number of examples.

Check the Jason film where he goes to space (yeah, I know) or better yet the film "Legion". Great movie, Charles Dutton's character was great, Tyrese Gibson's character was too "hood". Both of them was were great black characters. What made them great? By Hollywood's standards they died saving white folks who are oh so important because no else can save the world (Will Smith or Jet Li maybe).
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Charles Dutton is really good. I wish he was in more films. He was one of the best things about Alien 3.

Are other races not important enough for a white person to sacrifice themselves for? Can one black guy or girl live to the end. Are white people, Asians who know incredible martial arts, or sometimes Will Smith, the only capable people in the world? I think not.
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You're right, but at the same time, I think a lot of writers and directors just might be pressured by the studios to cater to the caucasian audience. I'm not saying it is proper, but it just might be the reality. I don't know how much it goes on, or if it is a big factor, but I would imagine that the studios are operating a bit under an old fashioned mentality probably still remnant from Old Hollywood.

I guess what this type of situation offers is a chance for a writer/filmmaker to subvert the stereotypes and surprise the audience.

If you think this is a mad black guy rant, check out "The Last Airbender". The mostly Asian and Ethic cast are all white suddenly. (Remember this was an Asian cartoon). This isn't a joke. The lead is even white and he's playing what is essentially an Asian character. (I thought David Carradine left us awhile ago).
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While I'm curious to see what M Night does with Airbender, it is weird that he didn't work in more diversity into the cast. Possibly studio meddling?

Angelina Jolie played Fox in "Wanted" who was a black female in the comic book. The writer wanted Halle Berry to play that role. Aside from general hotness Halle and Angie look nothing alike.
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Halle is hotter. That my friends is a fact.
 
Nektonic said:
Then there is Morpheus and Niobe in the Matrix trilogy. They both survived to the end while playing important parts (I guess Morpheus could be looked at as a sidekick, but he was the mentor character, which is not small thing). Actually, an interesting element of the Matrix trilogy is that the resistance was made up of a multicultural group, while the oppressive machines were overly clean cut white dudes, even the pompous Merovingian.
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...and the Oracle is depicted as a wise elderly black woman, another stereotype really but at least a comparatively positive one.

And yes, Halle is hotter. No question, about it.

Ving Rhames survives until the end of Dawn of the Dead but since it's implied at the very end that the island is zombie-infested and they all die anyway, it's not much of a victory.
 
Batutta said:
Richard Roundtree was in Heroes for a while, and Speed Racer.

Oh, let's not forget the gays--

1. Is there even one gay character with a name?
2. Are they something other than the hilarious sidekick to a romantic comedy heroine?
3. Do they give ANYONE a makeover?
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1. Lloyd from Entourage.
2. He is a sidekick in a way, but his character finally starts to arc later on in the series.
3. I think Lloyd maybe gave Johnny Drama a makeover, but I'm not 100% sure.
 
jkc123 said:
Didn't LL Cool J make it to the end in Deep Blue Sea?
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I can't remember, but Samuel L. Jackson's hilariously abrupt death scene pretty much cancelled that out--

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I AGREE


 
Batutta said:
And in the same spirit, my tests for other minority characters--

Black characters

1. Is there more than one black character with a name?
2. Are they something more than a colorful sidekick to the protagonist?
3. Do they live to the end credits?
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Keith David in THE THING!!!!
 
Sad Max said:
...and the Oracle is depicted as a wise elderly black woman, another stereotype really but at least a comparatively positive one.
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I suppose, but she was so clever while being granny-like that it never felt cliche to me. I think it was the writing but mostly the way the actresses played her (even the second one that had to pick up the role did really well). There was a ton of depth to her. Why didn't Gloria Foster get more prominent roles before The Matrix?

And yes, Halle is hotter. No question, about it.
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I forgot to add that she is also classier too.

Ving Rhames survives until the end of Dawn of the Dead but since it's implied at the very end that the island is zombie-infested and they all die anyway, it's not much of a victory.
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Why didn't they make a sequel about the Dawn of the Dead survivors on that island? Island of the Dead anyone?

Mark Harris said:
Keith David in THE THING!!!!
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I'm gonna have to debate that one in the way Sad Max questioned my Ving Rhames Dawn of the Dead one, mainly due to the fact that we don't know if Kurt or Keith was The Thing. So it is debatable if he really lived to the end. Great film though. One of my all time favorites.

Another good Keith David - John Carpenter collaboration was They Live. He almost made it to the very end in that one. Of course, he did have to endure a brutal 15 minute fight against Roddy Piper featuring numerous knees to the crotch to get there.
 
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Nektonic said:
I'm gonna have to debate that one in the way Sad Max questioned my Ving Rhames Dawn of the Dead one, mainly due to the fact that we don't know if Kurt or Keith was The Thing. So it is debatable if he really lived to the end. Great film though. One of my all time favorites.
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Don't even go there. When the screen fades to black, when the movie is OVER, he is alive. You want to make a sequel and kill him, go for it. I remember this same debate one year at the NYC HorrorFest when they asked: "how many people are alive at the end of THE THING?" We answered "2" and they said we got it wrong. NOT!!!!!!
 
I'd forgotten how really great Keith David was, in The Thing.

"No offense, Giles, but I think the gun oughtta go to someone a little bit more even-tempered..."
 
Batutta said:
I can't remember, but Samuel L. Jackson's hilariously abrupt death scene pretty much cancelled that out--
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One of the best death scenes ever, just by virtue of being totally unexpected. Heroic stirring speech! Hatch opens! *CHOMP*

...oh...
 
oh pleeeeeease. This has to be the most futile conversation topic if you expect to accomplish anything. But it's entertaining to recount specific films. (Which I won't do) :P

What is this test supposed to do? I think we can use this test to gauge a societies current status of media demographic, but on an individual movie basis, we need to have all sorts of films and stories. Would movies have a strong voice if every film had every minority with equal perspective and social context of equality? Would 'The Catcher in the Rye' be any good if it wasn't just pure adolescent male PoV? Would Fear and Loathing be anygood, if it wasn't from a drug addicts PoV? It wouldn't. So if you crave what is not the American Societial norm, I guarentee you there are hundereds of films available to you in this digital age, which speak to your liking.

There are many other films with just as strong female, black, gay, etc voices. We need those too. But let's not forget that most films are made for basic American consumption for entertainment.

Movies are movies. They are stories. These stories originate from individuals and can often be products of those individuals societies. Mainly we are examining films from the United States.

They (American films) are generally made for the American public, and the demographics they represent. So yes, white characters and men might be mainly favored in the day to day storytelling and entertainment world. Yes pretty girls will be favored over homely faces. This is simply because the films are being made in a country that is still mainly Caucasian, and still departing from a patriarch society. But this is a TOTALLY different world from 1980's cinema, in the years I was a little kid.

I think as a society, gender and race issues in the media are slowly increasing. I think minorities in media are becoming more populous than their in real world ratios, giving a greater exposure and voice if written well. (meaning look at commercials and tv shows), We could spend all day counting who is what, and in what film, but at the end of the day films will reflects the author of the work and the audience it will reach.

I've seen films that feature just women, just men, both, heterosexual issues, homosexual issues, and nature films that are simply about two water buffallo poo pooing in the wilderness.

I'm over it. We live in a world where there are great movies being made for every person, of any race, and of any belief. Movies can't please EVERYONE... who really expects to make a film that EVERYONE on earth can relate to?
 
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