Bebob Zoe DVXL - Fix for creeping zoom ?

[WorBry]

I recently purchased a used Bebob Zoe DVXL remote control on Ebay. It was said to be in 'good working condition' but when I tested it with my Canon HF-G30 I found that the zoom control was creeping i.e. after zooming in it slowly zoomed out again without touching the rocker. Also the MSR (Maximum Speed Reduction) control wheel on the side was not working - turning it had no effect on the zoom speed and it didn't come to a stop in either direction. Whether these issues were pre-existing or the DVXL got damaged in transit, I'm not sure (it was shipped in a 'bubble mailer' envelope !), but I decided to return it. To his credit, the seller gave me a full refund without question or requiring that the remote be returned.

I was thinking to maybe sell it 'For Parts Or Not Working' but came across this post in old forum thread (dating back to 2008) which suggested that the 'zoom creep' might be fixable:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?131484-HVX200-Bebob-Zoe-problem

Yes, I have the same problem with my Zoe. I understand it is not difficult to repair. It requires removing a strip of paper and invalidating your warranty. It is a common problem with them.

As I learn, the Varizoom VZ-Rock remotes have an access hole for adjusting (re-calibrating) the potentiometer with a small screw driver. Can't see anything like that on the DVXL so I assume it requires opening up the casing to access the potentiometer. Probably the 'strip of paper' mentioned in that post refers to the control panel plaque that extends as a strip around each side of the remote, which you need to cut in order to separate the casing. I haven't tried to open it up, as yet.

Could anyone who has done this instruct on me how to make the repair or point to a reference? If it is indeed 'not difficult' I might give it a go.

As for the broken MSR wheel. As I learn, this is a very common issue. Although the wheel is protected by two ridges, it doesn't take much to break the fragile coupling between the wheel and potentiometer if it is rotated roughly or knocked. Usually it gets stuck at the maximum or minimum zoom speed and the only 'make do' fix is to open the remote, rotate the potentiometer to a mid-point position and call it good. That's all I know. Again, I haven't actually tried it.

So, just posting on the off chance that someone knows how to do these repairs.

I should mention also that before I tested the DVXL I downloaded the Operating Instructions which warned that after connecting the remote and powering on the camcorder, the zoom rocker must not be moved while it is calibrating, so I took that precaution. Also I made sure that I did not touch the zoom rocker on the HF-G30 while the DVXL was connected. I'd read that using the on-camera controls while a LANC remote is connected can also send the camera LANC controller into a tissy. Needless to say the creeping only occurred when the DVXL was connected, so it's not the camcorder.

Meanwhile, I've purchased a Libec ZC-LP remote as I have a commitment to shoot a sporting event next week. It does the job I guess, but the zoom rocker is not as responsive as the DVXL. No Power control either, although when I tested the Power button on the DVXL it would only 'wake' the HF-G30 after it had 'Auto Powered Off' - it wouldn't actually power the camcorder OFF and ON again. Also I've noticed that the ZC-LP makes a rather annoying click when the rocker is turned fully clockwise (to Telephoto), which surprised me as the Libec remotes are reputed to be 'silent'. I'll post about this separately.

 

[cyvideo]

Correct on all accounts. ZOE's can be adjusted internally. I just used a fine blade and cut though the strip on one side only and was then able to open the unit like a clam shell. As for the speed potentiometer what happens there is a small square plastic knob on the wheel that fits into the potentiometer socket and it just sheers off if turned too far too forcefully. The later wheels actually have a steel c-pin molded through them to stop over rotation. I have one with the original no stop pin wheel and on the 18-110 it gives me range from 2 seconds to 90 seconds which is quite amazing as there is no way I have that sort of control on the 18-110's servo on the side of the lens. The travel of the wheel becomes limited when the pin that goes through the wheel hits the ZOE's casing at either end of the travel range. I have four of the ZOE units because I find the zoom control on them to be the best of the four I've tried which includes the Manfrotto, Liebec and Varizoom. Especially when working with the Sony 18-110 E-Mount zoom. I have also found even when adjusted correctly they can still start to creep and usually that happens if the ZOE has been plugged in AFTER the camera has been turned on. Make sure the camera is off and that the Lanc is plugged in and seated properly, horrible little connector, then turn the camera ON. Sometimes I have had to do this a couple of times with X70s and Z90s but never with the FS7. As some of the functions on the ZOE don't pertain to the cameras I'm using them on I snipped through one leg of the stop start and focus LEDs when I had the housing open and this disabled those circuits. One dab of solder can reattach the snipped LEDs should I need to re-enable those function for other cameras in the future. I also have an 8 pin ZOE that works very well on my old EX3 but that has never had any issues. Believe it or not the speed control wheels are still available. Email Angie Muschler at BeBob in Germany to check stock. She is incredibly helpful. Swapped mail with her a few times and she went the distance and was able to supply the speed wheels. They are about 1 Euro each. Tell her "Serendipity" Chris from Australia suggested you contact her. Her mail is:
Angie.Muschler(at)bebob.de

Chris Young

 

[WorBry]

Thank-you so much for the advice and information Chris.

ZOE's can be adjusted internally. I just used a fine blade and cut though the strip on one side only and was then able to open the unit like a clam shell.

Bit late to try it tonight. I've learned not to start projects after midnight, especially when I've no idea what I'm doing. Once I've opened it up, perhaps I could post of photo of the internals and you could point me to the component for adjusting the potentiometer ?

As for the speed potentiometer what happens there is a small square plastic knob on the wheel that fits into the potentiometer socket and it just sheers off if turned too far too forcefully. The later wheels actually have a steel c-pin molded through them to stop over rotation.

So that's all it is.

I have also found even when adjusted correctly they can still start to creep and usually that happens if the ZOE has been plugged in AFTER the camera has been turned on. Make sure the camera is off and that the Lanc is plugged in and seated properly, horrible little connector, then turn the camera ON.

Probably what happened in that old thread I referred to ? Yes, I've read that the connector on the Zoe remotes can be finnicky and I wondered if that might be the cause of the creeping. I tried reinserting it several times with the angled pin casing in different positions (turning off the camcorder each time) but it made no difference. It was the first time I'd connected anything to the 'Remote' jack on the HF-G30. The Libec ZC-LP connected and worked just fine.

Believe it or not the speed control wheels are still available. Email Angie Muschler at BeBob in Germany to check stock. She is incredibly helpful. Swapped mail with her a few times and she went the distance and was able to supply the speed wheels. They are about 1 Euro each. Tell her "Serendipity" Chris from Australia suggested you contact her. Her mail is:
Angie.Muschler(at)bebob.de

That's good to know. If I get the creeping fixed, I'll definitely follow up on that.

"Serendipity" Chris you are indeed :dankk2:

 

[Run&Gun]

Hmmm... I had two Bebob's for my Fuji broadcast ENG lenses and had to retire both, because they eventually got 'the creeps'. Didn't know you could adjust them like with the Varizooms. I actually really liked the Bebob's and wish they still made them for broadcast lenses. They were great to carry in a bag without taking up much space. MUCH smaller than the Varizoom's... Hopefully I didn't toss them both in the trash, so I can see if I can get them working properly again.

 

[WorBry]

Actually, if I can fix the zoom issues, the DVXL is perfect for mounting on my hand-held rig. The Libec ZC-LP has a wider clamp range, but it's quite bulky. Added to which the DVXL has a coiled cable. If I use the ZC-LP on the rig I'm going to have to tie up the cable somehow. It's one of the factors that put me off a Varizoom remote also. The Libec ZC-3DV at least had a detachable cable.

 

[cyvideo]

Sorry I should have explained a little bit more accurately. The zoom rocker potentiometer is on the inside of the rocker housing on the end of the shaft that comes through from the rocker arm. BUT the adjustment is done from the OUTSIDE. What you have to do is remove the little black cap from the back of the rocker. I just use a tiny jewelers flat blade screwdriver to remove these sorts of caps. BEHIND the cap is a approx 5mm flat blade screwdriver slot on the end of rocker shaft. The rocker is held in its default rest position by a large circular spring inside the housing. You don't have to go there. The only reason really to go into the housing is to replace the speed wheel generally.

Now follow this procedure. Connect the Zoe to your camera. If the connection is good and the unit is creeping it generally means the rocker shaft is not sitting in its null position on the potentiometer vis-a-vis the default rest position of the rocker. I do the following. Grab the entire Zoe zoom demand FIRMLY in one hand. Now with a 5mm or thereabouts flat head screwdriver engage the shaft screw slot that was reveled when you removed the plastic cap. The trick now is to have a firm enough grip on the entire Zoe AND the rocker so the rocker DOES NOT ROTATE when you adjust this screw. By turning the screw clockwise and anticlockwise, it's firm and stiff to turn, you can get the Zoe to start zooming in or out. The trick now is to slowly bit by bit turn the screw either way until the zooming/creeping stops. All the while making sure the rocker is NOT rotating from its normal rest position with that firm grip. The end result is that you should be able to adjust the shaft into its null position in the potentiometer and that null position should now be aligned with the normal sprung loaded null position of the rocker. If the 0 volt, null position on the potentiometer is out of line with the sprung loaded null position of the rocker it will creep.

Not saying this is your problem but in all instances of BeBop Zoe controllers that were creeping this procedure has worked for me. From what I can see of the design is that the rocker shaft looks like an interference press fit into the composite thumb rocker. I'm guessing over time the interference fit slips marginally because the pressure required on the rocker is quite reasonable to overcome the self centering spring and maybe, I don't know maybe this induces some slippage. As these units have been out of production for a while three of them I purchased were second hand and all of them had the 'creeps'

Happy screwing!

Chris Young

 

[Greg_E]

Generally the resistive layer on these starts to wear away and requires a reset, but having the shaft out of position is also possible. I'm betting they are common off the shelf components that can be replaced when they get beyond a simple adjustment.

 

[WorBry]

Sorry I should have explained a little bit more accurately. The zoom rocker potentiometer is on the inside of the rocker housing on the end of the shaft that comes through from the rocker arm. BUT the adjustment is done from the OUTSIDE. What you have to do is remove the little black cap from the back of the rocker. I just use a tiny jewelers flat blade screwdriver to remove these sorts of caps. BEHIND the cap is a approx 5mm flat blade screwdriver slot on the end of rocker shaft. The rocker is held in its default rest position by a large circular spring inside the housing. You don't have to go there. The only reason really to go into the housing is to replace the speed wheel generally.

Thanks Chris. In fact I'd already opened it and was pondering what there is there on the potentiometer to adjust. So you preempted my next question. Anyhow, I wanted to have a look at the state of the wheel and what would be involved in replacing it or doing the 'make-do' zoom speed fix. Here some pics (click to enlarge and left click (+) cursor to enlarge further):

The wheel, which appears to have sheared off like you said:



The board with the wheel coupling (cream) on the right side:



And the reverse side of the board:



I didn't probe any further, and I'm not sure what portion of the coupling there constitutes the remnants of the wheel component itself. But I assume the 'make do' fix would involve inserting a screw driver into that hole and, with the camcorder connected, turning it to give the desired 'compromise' zoom speed ? Probably best done from the rear side of the board ?

Anyhow, I've closed it up again now (minus the wheel) so I'll have a go at fixing the zoom creep first. It's at times like this that I wish I'd retained one of my old camcorders to use for testing...older than the HF-G30, that is.

Happy screwing!

Always.

Thanks again.

 

[WorBry]

Generally the resistive layer on these starts to wear away and requires a reset, but having the shaft out of position is also possible.

I wonder if got a knock in transit. Like I said it was shipped in just a bubble mailer envelope.

BTW - I see there's another DVXL up for sale on Ebay:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/ZOE-DVXL-by...300074?hash=item3413f7b46a:g:Z5YAAOSwIb5dhLAM

He's also selling the older DVL model:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/ZOE-DVL-by-...153144?hash=item341413faf8:g:kR8AAOSweHtdhnmD

Note the peeled back plaque strip and wheel in one of the pics. Actually it looks different to the wheel in my DVXL.

 

[cyvideo]

The wheel, which appears to have sheared off like you said:

You are correct WorBry. Have a look at the pictures below. If you get a new wheel you will see straight away that the peg on it is way longer than the one in your picture. Plus it will have a steel 'c' pin through it. Once you press the remains of that black plastic peg out out of the center of the speed potentiometer then yes I guess you could adjust the potentiometer for a mid or suitable zoom speed with a small driver or or something similar.. I guess you could adjust this carefully while connected to the camera. Either that or adjust, try, adjust, try and repeat until you get a speed that works for you.

Chris Young

 

[WorBry]

Thanks Chris. I haven't tried fixing the creep yet. Committed to building some steps today - no choice, the wife has chosen the wood and I'm getting that "Don't think you are going to be messing around with cameras" look. Plus I want to make absolutely sure I know what I'm doing before turning that screw - don't want to make matters worse.

Watched the video for calibrating Varizoom VZ-Rock remotes again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQiqRpwzMBg

On the Varizoom's there is a set-screw on the underside for loosening rocker from the potentiometer before adjusting the screw and I thought surely there must be similar on the Zoe. Only thing on the underside is that oval 'Bebob' label - could it be under that ? So I carefully peeled it back and lo and behold, two holes - look like tiny set screws?



The guy in the link I referred to in my first post said "It requires removing a strip of paper and invalidating your warranty". I'd assumed that meant cutting the strips on the side to open the casing, but maybe he was referring to that label ? But if they are for loosening the rocker, why two of them - added strength to prevent slippage or do they have another purpose? Don't have a hex key small enough to check.

Also there's a notch on the rocker which I assume is there to line up the rocker with the groove on the casing.

 

[Run&Gun]

Found both of my old Zoe ENG's and tweaked them. They seemed stable afterwards, so we will see...

 

[WorBry]

I contacted Angie at Bebob and she will be sending a replacement MSR wheel. Fantastic. Thanks Chris.

She also confirmed that the two tiny set-screws on the underside do hold the rocker to the potentiometer shaft. Loosening them then allows the adjustment screw on the end of the shaft to be turned quite easily. Unscrewing them fully however is probably not a good idea as it allows the rocker to pull away from the shaft hub (where it attached to the casing) and when that happens, the spring becomes unseated, as I found out. Re-seating it again is a bit more finicky. The 'pigtails' of the circular spring have to be crossed over a pin under tension; there are matching pins on the rocker and casing. Attempting to mount the spring on the rocker side (which has a circular recess) proved to be an exercise in futility - kept springing off. I finally managed mount the spring on the casing side and carefully slid the rocker back onto the shaft until the two pins met. I was careful not to wipe away the lubricant that was on the shaft hub - although that could probably be replaced with some dieletric grease. Anyhow, I finally managed to re-assemble it.

I also asked Angie about the service procedure for re-calibrating the potentiometer. She advised that whether re-calibration, or calibration of a newly installed potentiometer, the potentiometer must be set to 10K Ohm. If I were an electronics buff I might have pursued that further. That would definitely require opening up the casing to access the potentiometer terminals. I didn't inquire whether replacement potentiometers are still available.

That said, with the rocker back-on, the set-screws loosened (enough to ease turning of the adjustment screw head) and the HF-G30 connected, I have managed to offset (I am hesitant to say 'correct') the zoom creeping...for now. We'll see, as Run&Gun remarked.

Next challenge will be installing the replacement MSR wheel when it arrives. I'd don't think I'll mess with the 'make do' fix.

 

[cyvideo]

On the Varizoom's there is a set-screw on the underside for loosening rocker from the potentiometer before adjusting the screw and I thought surely there must be similar on the Zoe. Only thing on the underside is that oval 'Bebob' label - could it be under that ? So I carefully peeled it back and lo and behold, two holes - look like tiny set screws?

Well there you go! I learnt something new today, Did I think of looking under the little blue label? Nah I didn't. Good thinking there WorBry. Thanks for the advice. I will be mindful of the not undoing the lock screws too far as that little sucker of a spring looks a bit tricky to get back in place.

Glad Angie at BeBob could help out. I was reluctant to throw all my Zoes out so reached out to BeBob as a last resort. It is pleasant these days to find a company that will go the extra distance on support for such a small piece of kit that has ceased production some years ago. I told her her she had good karma and that good things will come her way that's how "serendipity" came up. Serendipity - meaning = "The occurrence and development of events by chance in a happy or beneficial way."

BTW replacing the wheel is pretty easy

Chris Young

 

[cyvideo]

Found both of my old Zoe ENG's and tweaked them. They seemed stable afterwards, so we will see...

Good to hear. WorBry's info on the set screws and the potentiometer setting of 10K Ohm resistance is also useful info in trying to extend the life of these little Zoe controllers. Worth the trouble I think. The Zoe make the Sony 18-110 an infinitely more controllable zoom lens.

Chris Young

 

[WorBry]

WorBry's info on the set screws and the potentiometer setting of 10K Ohm resistance is also useful...

Actually I've just got back to her to see if she could shed more light on the standard procedure. Can't be that difficult, measuring the resistance across the potentiometer terminals with an Ohmmeter whilst tweaking the adjustment screw.

 

[Greg_E]

I'd guess that you are really dealing with a voltage and the potentiometer is used as a voltage divider, but might be wrong. If they say to set it to 10k ohm, then my guess is that they have a 20k pot in there (of some kind) and you set it to the middle of the range.

What you may find is that the pot no longer reads correctly at that middle spot, only way to really see this is with a decent analog ohm meter, not a digital. Measure the pot and sweep across the range of motion. If it isn't smooth then you need to replace the pot. You could get similar with a voltage being fed to the pot, and sweep it when connected to an oscilloscope on a long time base (so it plots a curve) or logging oscope. Even the cheapo scopes on ebay/amazon would be more than enough for this type of job, and like $50.

https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/voltage-dividers/all

 

[WorBry]

I'd guess that you are really dealing with a voltage and the potentiometer is used as a voltage divider, but might be wrong. If they say to set it to 10k ohm, then my guess is that they have a 20k pot in there (of some kind) and you set it to the middle of the range.

The Ohms rating and letter denoting the potentiometer type should be marked on it, but I'd have to open up the casing and unseat the board again to see if I can read it. I'd prefer to wait until I install the replacement wheel.

What you may find is that the pot no longer reads correctly at that middle spot, only way to really see this is with a decent analog ohm meter, not a digital. Measure the pot and sweep across the range of motion. If it isn't smooth then you need to replace the pot. You could get similar with a voltage being fed to the pot, and sweep it when connected to an oscilloscope on a long time base (so it plots a curve) or logging oscope. Even the cheapo scopes on ebay/amazon would be more than enough for this type of job, and like $50.

https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/voltage-dividers/all

I was hoping Angie would come back with details of the procedure, but no response on that as yet. Possibly not information they are prepared to divulge.

 

[Run&Gun]

The set screws on mine appeared to be of different sizes. I used the second smallest allen/hex wrench I had and it fit the "bottom most" set screw perfectly, but the second set screw(closets to the body of the controller) didn't like it. My smallest allen/hex was too small, so back to the original. I was able to get it, going perfectly straight in and with some force(both to insert and remove it). At first I thought it might just be a manufacturing defect on that particular screw, but it was exactly the same on the other controller that was purchased a year or two after. Not sure why they would use two different ones in that context...

 

[WorBry]

I received the replacement MSR wheel. Looks to be the same as the original, with the (hexagonal) peg intact - no pin going through it.



Problem now is removing the sheared off portion of peg that's plugging up the hole in the speed potentiometer. Tried pushing it from either side with a hex key but it won't budge. Don't want apply too much pressure for fear of breaking the soldered contacts that attach it to the board.





Any suggestions ?

Also took a closer look at the main potentiometer.




Don't see any markings (on the visible side anyway) that indicate the ohms rating and potentiometer type. Just embossed with the manufacturer (Bourns) and the numbers 3, 2, 1 (upside down there) which I assume refer to the numbering of the three terminals. And what looks like a Q.C.
stamp.

Actually, having received no further response from Angie about the service procedure for calibrating the potentiometer, I phoned her - thought I had maybe pushed my luck, but she'd missed my email. She explained that she's in Sales Support at Head Office and that was the only information (i.e. setting the potentiometer to 10K Ohm) she got from the technical people. Very nice lady by the way. Sent the wheel (and a spare) by Fedex at no charge.