BBC Scotland audio report on the AF101 - EDIT - it's BBC-approved for HD!

This has seriously made my day. 100% acquisition (w/ nanoflash)... WINNING!

on edit: Out of curiosity, I have not had a chance to listen to it yet (do they have a text transcript somewhere?) but did they specify that it was approved with the Nanoflash or with and External Recorder, and what were the recording specs they listed? I am assuming using a 50mbps I-Frame codec? I am really curious about the details, as I have been waiting for this to go buy my external recorder, and want to get the nanoflash as it seems to be the most used (although the price of the samuari is REALLY tempting, as it the proress of the Aja for personal work), but I care most about the widest acceptance and what will be regarded as standard, or at least filling the most of the needs required of various clients.

on edit (again): Is their a spec for using the native codec, as in what % could be used? I am just thinking for overcranking/undercranking where you cant do that through the HD-SDI port.
 
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Oliver I've been using a nanoFlash for just over a year now. The sweet spot for LongGOP is 100 mbit and with iFrame it is 180 mbit as stated by the manufactuer. Over time people have gravitated towards as high as you can go with your CompactFlash cards for broadcast material which is usually 220 mbit and if you have the superfast qualified cards you can go 280 mbit.

Many broadcast outlets spec 50 mbit 422 as a minimum.

Having said all that, the optimum bitrate also depends on how noisy your source is. I've seen examples of footage where if the crispening or sharpening is turned up on EX footage that it accentuates the noise and grain which can get even more pronounced on the higher bitrate acquisition. What is happening though is the nanoFlash is reproducing the noise more faithfully than the internal XDCAM codec which is doing some pixel smearing and thereby "removing" noise.

You will have to experiment with the AF100 to see where the sweetspot is. You will also have to play around with your sharpening settings in camera to make sure you don't send amped up noise to your nanoFlash or whatever recorder you chose.
 
The BBC are aware of the ATMOS range i guess they are waiting to get their hands on one...
 
I'm an Af100 owner and AF100 lover - and I'm not trying to be a downer here, or be negative in any way - I just need clarification (because it seems I missed something): I've gone to the provided link and listened to both of the audio links twice, and I can't find the part that says the camera was "approved by the BBC for BBC HD productions" network-wide, at 100%.

It's really clear that BBC Scotland evaluated and purchased an AF101 (because they had a certain amount of money to spend on a camera) and they decided it would better meet their needs with a Nanoflash, and did a presentation about it all, but...

1) Why does this then infer/confirm that the camera is "Officially on the approved list" BBC-wide? (I'm sorry if I'm not familiar with the process/policies/politics of these things)

2) I get that they purchased a Nanoflash (and said it was necessary to meet their requirements) - but again, how does this translate into "It can officially be used as long as it's used with ANY external recorder" (which is sort of what people are now repeating). Specifically, where is the "any external recorder" part?

Again, I'm not trying to downplay this or imply people are making leaps in logic or something...I just want to understand (and admit I'm not as familiar with this as others around here, and very well may have missed something).

Thanks,

Steve
 
I don't know whether it's stated explicitly or not, but it is not unreasonable to say that "any external recorder" (and perhaps we would add "that uses 100% accurate ProRes) would satisfy the conditions, because, as far as quality is concerned, they should all be the same, for a given bitrate.

Dave
Atomos
 
I was told that BBC Scotland was tasked with the job of evaluating the AF101, and that the net result of their evaluation was what that presentation at the Big Sensor meeting was about, and that the camera is approved for HD production. The only caveat I heard in that report was along the lines of "as long as it's appropriate for that kind of production", which I don't know exactly what they mean there.

As for the external recorder, there is no blanket approval on all external recorders, nor has anyone implied that there is, as far as I know. What they said was that the AF101 is approved when used with proper external recording, which would mean at a minimum the Nano at 50mbps, because that's already been BBC-approved in other areas. I'm sure the Atomos recorders and the Ki Pro Mini will have to be evaluated for approval too.
 
OK, I think I understand then: It's not in the actual audio clip itself, but confirmation was received directly by Barry OUTSIDE of the discussion and analysis in this thread about the implications of the "Big Sensor" presentation - along with a clear confirmation that it's now on the approved list. Is that right?

The "blanket approval" inference regarding recorders is from this thread, where people are saying things like "...as long as an external recorder is used" - which it seems may be a little bit of a leap or simplification.

I just wanted to be specific (and careful) about what I say when I'm repeating the information about this approval.
 
The Sony EX3 went through the same evaluation, it was not Full HD approved using its internal codec but with an external nano it was (100% HD) - and indeed many program's have been shot on it Helicopter heroes being a recent one I know off. (we knew it as the frankencam the chassis of a EX3 and nano's is a bit of a handfull).

The same conditions have been placed on the AF101, with an external recorder it can be used for full HD production, at the moment AFAIK its the nano - but I know the BBC are aware of the ATMOS (and others) my guess is that it will be evaluated and if it meets the spec it will be used.
Perhaps there is confusion over the % ratio, if a camera does not meet the BBC's HD spec only a certain percentage of footage shot by that camera/codec is allowed in a programme but this includes archive material and stuff shot from a variety of cameras e.g. Sony PD150's to Hero GoPro's and everything in between, Of course there are exceptions say your were doing a historical piece.
Lets wait and see what the beeb says about the ATMOS
Also my understanding of "that kind of production" its a big variable - could be the look of the camera (picture) / physical size where you cant squeeze a ARRI or RED in a location but a AF101 will fit / money / a producers gut feeling....


The presentation focused on the camera, external recorders is another area but essentially yes the AF101 can be used with an approved BBC external recorder for full HD
 
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Steve R said:
I'm an Af100 owner and AF100 lover - and I'm not trying to be a downer here, or be negative in any way - I just need clarification (because it seems I missed something): I've gone to the provided link and listened to both of the audio links twice, and I can't find the part that says the camera was "approved by the BBC for BBC HD productions" network-wide, at 100%.

It's really clear that BBC Scotland evaluated and purchased an AF101 (because they had a certain amount of money to spend on a camera) and they decided it would better meet their needs with a Nanoflash, and did a presentation about it all, but...

1) Why does this then infer/confirm that the camera is "Officially on the approved list" BBC-wide? (I'm sorry if I'm not familiar with the process/policies/politics of these things)

2) I get that they purchased a Nanoflash (and said it was necessary to meet their requirements) - but again, how does this translate into "It can officially be used as long as it's used with ANY external recorder" (which is sort of what people are now repeating). Specifically, where is the "any external recorder" part?

Again, I'm not trying to downplay this or imply people are making leaps in logic or something...I just want to understand (and admit I'm not as familiar with this as others around here, and very well may have missed something).

Thanks,

Steve
Click to expand...

This is what the official BBC tester Alan Roberts just wrote (dvdoctor.net http://forums.dvdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=52897&page=8 ) about the BBC Scotland audionews:

"I don't know whether the BBC's approved it or not, but I suspect it would be with significant caveats if it has. The EBU's preparing a formal methodology for categorising cameras according to measurement results, to assign a 0~100 scale to each camera (one of the reasons why I've been so busy for the past few months). So, approval could mean a lot of things, like 'ok for specific shots in specfific programme-genres'. Soon there will be no blanket approval status, which is exactly as it should be."


And this is the official BBC approved cameras list (2011) from their site:
"...Approved HD Camera & Settings

The following cameras are presently approved by the BBC. You can find more information about these cameras and others, along with pointers for camera set-up, in the downloadable user guides on the right hand side of this page.

Panasonic AJ-HPX3700, 2700, 3000 & 2100
Panasonic 'Varicam' HDC27F & H
Panasonic AJ-HDX900
Sony HDW F900R & 900
Sony HDW 790, 750 & 730
Sony CineAlta F35
Arri D21 & Alexa
Panavision Genesis
Thompson Viper
* For use by Independent productions only:
Canon XF 300E & 305E
Red One
Sony PDW 800 & 700
Mini cameras:
Iconix HD-RH1
Panasonic HCK10 / HMR10
Toshiba IK-HR1S
Toshiba IK-HD1

Post-Production & Delivery

Information on HD Post-production and delivery is available in the following guides found in the downloads section on the top-right of this page:

  • Programme Delivery to BBC HD
  • HD: Summary of Delivery Formats
  • HD: Delivery for BBC Worldwide
More information on other Delivery formats is available in the Delivering Quality Summary of Delivery Formats ..."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tv/production/delivery/hd-production-delivery.shtml
 
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lrtv said:
14:39 in the link on page 1 in this thread Dave Chambers says "HD channel approval".
Click to expand...

The actual words there are:

"Let's go back to the list...[..]...HD channel approval...with some caveats, for the right kind of programme...it's looking pretty good..."
 
I have said all along to my friends in St. Louis that this camera will out sell the HVX200... I still belive this

Jay
 
To be included in a published website list does take some additional time, and I am confident based on my UK contacts that you will see the AF100 to be accepted for HD production as long as an external(approved) recorder is used at a bit rate exceeding 4:2:2 and 50Mbs. I think trying to read into a audio report is hard as people tend to speak with more than just words. So the fact that we don't get to see the powerpoint slides undermines our full understanding, and the fact that we don't get to see his face and gestures also undermines us. That said, our guys in the UK have had words with the BBC and the final form is in the making. Let us not turn this thread into a negative scrap heap, it is the bearer of good news, although it is not yet printed, it has promise of that to come.

Best regards,

Jan
 
Since I am one of the very few DPs in Glasgow with an AF101 and live less than 5 miles from BBC Scotland then I should give them a bell.
 
As far as that list, the Canon Xf300/305 have been approved for all BBC productions, not just from independent producers. The list may say 2011, but I don't think it's been fully updated.
Maybe the Af101 is on it now?
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
I have said all along to my friends in St. Louis that this camera will out sell the HVX200... I still belive this

Jay
Click to expand...
...with the modifications begging to be made; better OLPF/sampling and onboard AVC100--
a resounding YES.
 
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Well the EX1/3 is used by the BBC with external recorders and they are not on the list so I suspect it will be acceptable for certain situations where a shallow DOF is required by the production rather than blanket cover and in preference to a DSLR.

I have used my HPX301's several times on BBC productions but they are also not on the list for blanket use.
 
AFAIK "the list refers" to kit thats bought off the shelf with no modifications or add on's needed, you buy,charge it up and shoot, hence the Canon XF 300/305 ticks all the boxes.

Other cameras can be and are used for full BBC HD productions, usually its a external recorder thats added on to comply (e.g. Sony EX3 with Nanoflash for full HD production), the AF101 falls into this category so as many have said in earlier posts, the AF101 with an external recorders its HD approved.

Lets wait and see what other external recording devices are on the beebs list.
 
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