Basic variable frame rate questions

C

ctlewis

New member
I feel I am not quite gettting something when it comes to the HVX slow/fast motion. I have read the part of Barry's book that covers this, (and I concur with the consensus that it is a great book. I would be completely lost if I only had that Panasonic manual as a guide.) but I still feel a little lost. I am still waiting for that "Ah Ha" moment. Maybe someone can point me to a relevant thread. I haven't found one yet.

In a nutshell, I guess I have figured out the 24pn slow-motion. I can view it in-camera without a problem. (I haven't imported any 24pn slow-mo footage into FCP yet, so I shouldn't necessarily say I figured it out just yet) Anyway, it is with the other non-native 24p and 30p and 60p settings that I get confused. So I'll state what I think I have deduced and you all can tell me where I go wrong.

Apparently if you shoot variable frame rates in these non-native settings you can't view them in-camera. So I shot some stuff at different frame rates (24p at 48 frames and 20 frames) and brought it into a friend's Power Book (I could only affiord the camera, not a new faster computer as well) which was running FCP 5.0.4. We thought the variable frame rates might become apparent once it was in the NLE. They weren't. So based on a few posts I found here I am thinking I need FCP version 5.1.4 and then I use the Frame Rate Converter tool (I think that was the name anyway) and all will be fine.

So am I heading in the right direction? or do I have this completely wrong? Is it not possible to see variable frame rates shot non-native with FCP 5.0.4? Does it have something to do with the timebase of the sequence? Have I completely misread Barry's book and there is no need to shoot variable frame rates in non-native?

Anyway, sorry for the long post and thanks for any feedback. Should I have posted this in Work Flow instead?

-Thomas
 
Yes you're on the right track.

pN mode = variable frame rates in-camera and in the NLE.

Non-pN mode = you need to run the Frame Rate Converter tool to see the slow-mo or fast-mo effect.
 
I had the exact same question as ctlewis in regards to the differences between shooting pN and non-pN variable frame rates and how to view them. But after reading the link that BenB provided I must say I'm a bit confused. If you can see the pN slow-mo's in the camera and in FCP (or another NLE) without any added steps (i.e. Frame Rate Converter) why would you shoot in the non-pN mode? Are there any advantages? The only one I thought of would be, that while you're shooting in non-pN mode you're still capturing audio. But then in the article from the link it says,"The Frame Rate Converter only works with certain footage, and does not process
timecode or audio." So there goes my audio theory right? Or am I way off? I just got the HVX and I want to learn as much about it before I start using it. So, if there's any reason to shoot in the non-pN mode for slow-mo shots please let me know. Thanks.

Colin
 
The only reason to shoot in non-PN mode for slow-mo shots is if you're recording through the firewire port (such as to an FS-100 or direct to the computer). pN mode doesn't send video data out the firewire port.

And even though FCP's frame rate converter doesn't keep the audio, you still have the original audio files on the P2 card to go back to.
 
I'd also add that if you want both regular speed and slo-mo of the same shot, you'd use non-Native mode to get it. I do that a lot. In my documentary, we don't know what we want to slo-mo or not. If you're doing sports or events, you don't know before hand. So you can shoot the non-Native mode, then in post, you can achieve both as you need it.

Audio is the other reason, a Native mode VFR won't give you audio.
 
Thank you so much for all of your input. I truly appreciate it. You answered another question that I had,"I'd also add that if you want both regular speed and slo-mo of the same shot, you'd use non-Native mode to get it." So thanks again. My only question now is why I can't get the DVCPROHDFRC plugin to show up in my TOOLS in FCP. I've downloaded it twice and still nothing...? Anyone else have this problem?
 
It's on the Final Cut Suite installation DVD, in the Extras folder, you put it in your plug-ins folder. What is the name of the file, where are you "downloading" it from, and what version of FCP are you on? I really don't think you can download it. If you're still on 5.0, and don't have the FRC, PM me!

I think that Technically the FRC needs FCP 5.1 (the 5.1 Install disk is where it first appeared). Unoffically, I know someone who ran it in 5.0.x and claimed it worked.

And yes, to quote the error message:
"Only DVCPRO HD 720P 59.94 media files are supported."
That means only 720p24 VFR non-Native. And why you technically are NOT supposed to apply the advanced pulldown removal to clips you want to put through the FRC. Cause if it gets changed to 24fps first, when you try to process it through the FRC, it will fuss at you.
 
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Ben, So I solved the problem of the missing FRC plug-in...turns out the plug-in I had in my computer was corrupted. I grabbed it again from the Extras folder and now it works perfectly. Here's the site I tried downloading it from http://www.panasonic.com/business/provideo/support/fcphd.asp Anyways, I've messed with some of the footage that I shot in non-native VFR 720p24 and it looks great once converted to it's intended speed. However, I tried editing a piece with a speed change in it by using the original file first then cutting it with the FRC processed piece and the original one appears to play a little bit "faster" than normal. Do you ever notice this? Is there something you do special? Thanks again for your help. And by the way, your tutorial on the fs100fcp was amazingly helpful.

Colin
 
I had it set to 48 FPS. And like I said, the FRC'd footage looks as clean as if I had shot it in the 720pN24. But when cut together with the original footage (with no speed changes or effects added) the original clip looks a bit sped up. Thanks again.
 
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