If I have the DVX100A and access to a Sennheiser ME66 shotgun mic, can I just "plug and play?" That is, are there any settings on my DVX100A that I need to worry about before filming/recording dialogue? Or can I just insert the mic into the XLR input and start recording. Frankly, the audio posts baffle me.
Basic audio set-up
- Thread starter sean90291
- Start date
I have the same combo, works fine.
Go to Camera Menu item 5 recording setup and check the following items:
Audio rec:48k(16bit) (for best quality, really never need to use anything else)
Mic ALC: ON (this is a limiter, prevents clipping if the levels are too high)
Mic Gain 1 and 2: -50dB (50 db amplification compared to line signal, ME66 is a high output mic. -60dB sets the levels too high for ME66)
Connect the mic to input 2. Set the front input 2 switch to "mic". Under the LCD display set the CH1 select to "input 2" and CH 2 select to "input 2". This sends the audio to both channels from one mic. This is assuming you are not using another mic on the other channel, like a radio mic or somehing. If your ME66 is battery powered like it usually is, set the camera's mic power switch to "off", if it needs phantom power, "on".
Audio levels you must set by hand using the audio level controls, there is no automatic level control on DVX100. When shooting a documentary I had the levels at about 11 o'clock position for good levels, you must experiment with your setup; how far the actors are from the mic, how loud they are. Make sure that you see the level meters on the viewfinder, they should go 3-4 segments to the red on the loudest passages. On the DVX1000 red does not mean clipping, red means good levels (over -20dB). Hitting 5 red segments all the time signals clipping than even the limiter can not save. If you are familiar with audio manipulation in the post (send everything to mono submix etc.), then you can set the level on one channel higher than other. If one channel clips, the other is usable. That trick can be usefull in gun and run situations, but in controlled dialogue not needed.
That's it!
Go to Camera Menu item 5 recording setup and check the following items:
Audio rec:48k(16bit) (for best quality, really never need to use anything else)
Mic ALC: ON (this is a limiter, prevents clipping if the levels are too high)
Mic Gain 1 and 2: -50dB (50 db amplification compared to line signal, ME66 is a high output mic. -60dB sets the levels too high for ME66)
Connect the mic to input 2. Set the front input 2 switch to "mic". Under the LCD display set the CH1 select to "input 2" and CH 2 select to "input 2". This sends the audio to both channels from one mic. This is assuming you are not using another mic on the other channel, like a radio mic or somehing. If your ME66 is battery powered like it usually is, set the camera's mic power switch to "off", if it needs phantom power, "on".
Audio levels you must set by hand using the audio level controls, there is no automatic level control on DVX100. When shooting a documentary I had the levels at about 11 o'clock position for good levels, you must experiment with your setup; how far the actors are from the mic, how loud they are. Make sure that you see the level meters on the viewfinder, they should go 3-4 segments to the red on the loudest passages. On the DVX1000 red does not mean clipping, red means good levels (over -20dB). Hitting 5 red segments all the time signals clipping than even the limiter can not save. If you are familiar with audio manipulation in the post (send everything to mono submix etc.), then you can set the level on one channel higher than other. If one channel clips, the other is usable. That trick can be usefull in gun and run situations, but in controlled dialogue not needed.
That's it!
Jeremy Ordan
Major Contributor
Without cracking open Pandora's Box regarding your microphone of choice, the simple answer to your question is 'yes'. You will be able to just plug your microphone into your camera using a three pin XLR microphone cable and be able to record audio.
With your microphone you can either have it camera mounted through the included DVX Microphone Shockmount or you can use the shoe on top if you have an additional shoe adapter.
If you will want to use the microphone in a boom situation you will need a boompole, longer XLR microphone cable, and a shockmount. I would also recommend some sort of Rycote wind protection to ensure that you get the best possible audio capture.
The settings you will want to be aware of are all going to be displayed. In general I record my audio to one notch below redline. This provides me with a lot of headroom to be able to adjust sound in post and balance my audio to ensure the best results. Just watch your monitor and look at your levels to ensure you get the best audio possible. Best of luck, welcome to the forum, and happy shooting.
With your microphone you can either have it camera mounted through the included DVX Microphone Shockmount or you can use the shoe on top if you have an additional shoe adapter.
If you will want to use the microphone in a boom situation you will need a boompole, longer XLR microphone cable, and a shockmount. I would also recommend some sort of Rycote wind protection to ensure that you get the best possible audio capture.
The settings you will want to be aware of are all going to be displayed. In general I record my audio to one notch below redline. This provides me with a lot of headroom to be able to adjust sound in post and balance my audio to ensure the best results. Just watch your monitor and look at your levels to ensure you get the best audio possible. Best of luck, welcome to the forum, and happy shooting.
I would add that even thought there are better shotgun mics than ME66 out there (especially for a price), it still is a good mic and wastly better than any built-in mic. The first things to worry about for the most of us is to get something worth recording in front of our cameras, to get a good mic position, good windshilding, good post. Only then start worrying about the hi-fi aspects of the audio chain...
(I have one documentary running on the NG adventure channels, recorded with ME66. Never heard any complaints from the producers about the spectral balance or sidelobe rejection or whatnot of my ME66. Real life is real life, hi-fi is a hobby)
(I have one documentary running on the NG adventure channels, recorded with ME66. Never heard any complaints from the producers about the spectral balance or sidelobe rejection or whatnot of my ME66. Real life is real life, hi-fi is a hobby)
Petrus said:
i guess the attitude to your stuff is exactly as your attitude to your sound
cheap its good - no one complain since no one really watch it or hear it since it NG
in my country these who do real life usually put subtitles and nobody car
i guess you can take this example and make few more $ by eliminating the 66
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
Hey George that's funny... but seriously Petrus what's the documentary? The title I mean. I have never understood why some of the pros on these boards will use a project as an example and then spare us the details.
Even though this is an audio thread I think that could be more helpful then anything else because then we can actually get your point by listening.
Also I wanted to compliment you on your first reply. That was very well stated and concise. I wish I had that talent.
Even though this is an audio thread I think that could be more helpful then anything else because then we can actually get your point by listening.
Also I wanted to compliment you on your first reply. That was very well stated and concise. I wish I had that talent.
Petrus said:
On dvx when you come straight in mike level without leveling before ( mixer or external mike pre ) the meters dont say anything to you ,the level you see is digital level ,you may clip even your peacks are not hit the the 6 white .since you clip in analog stage and leveling the already clipped signal wouldn't make any good
the alc in that case not really help aether and only prevent to hit the digital zero.
since you are working with quit hot output mike 50mv +- 2.5db( 2.5 db its almost 50% more so it can be 70 as well
)) which about twice hotter then the 416 (6db) and abot 4 times then octava (12db)or schoeps ,it would be good have attenuator between your camera input and your mike ( there are barrels which decrease the signal for 10,15,25 db from shure - 35$ at b&h)
then if the sound is to loud , first you step down in analog domain and then only make level with potentiometer .
dont worry the attenuator bypassing phantom so you are working as usial.
this might help not to bring real life ng sound and not waist time trying to save your sound in post
if you work as a one man show , use headphones to check the real recording and not only to see the levels - i know its not pleasant since the small **** has delay on headphones out , but you must it from time to time , the headphone amp has allot of white noise since Panasonic made maybe the worst one i know between the dv cams so you can buy external headphone amp like boostaro or similar and check the signal from the rca outs - much cleaner signal - but the same delay , at least it would give you more detail and pleasant sound then the **** hole called headphones out .
work with good headphones since this is the only tool which can say you how good is your signal
my 2 ley
I will join in here and not say much about your choice of mic (other than to say it would not have been my first choice for the price). But, one thing that was left out of the instructions here is if you are using one input to both channels, when you set the audio levels (with the little nobs) set one at the base level you want, and then set the other one a couple of notches lower. This way, if you get clipping or blowout on one channel, you probably still have a good recording on the other. It is easy to make it stereo again in post (all of the NLE's that I know can do this easily).
Good luck,
Phil
Edit: Oops, I do see that this was covered above now. But, I will say that, even in "controlled" situations, setting the level on one channel lower than the other is still a good idea, because you never know when an actor will decide to "bring up" their performance....and it never fails that the director likes that take the best...so always be safe.
Good luck,
Phil
Edit: Oops, I do see that this was covered above now. But, I will say that, even in "controlled" situations, setting the level on one channel lower than the other is still a good idea, because you never know when an actor will decide to "bring up" their performance....and it never fails that the director likes that take the best...so always be safe.
Thanks, MattinSTL for your complement. Two things I have noticed on this board, and others: "pro" replyers often overestimate the knowledge of the people who ask really simple (sometimes downright stupid questions, not this one, more about this later), often it is best to walk thru the basic prosedure to help them out. Not just throw something highly detailed and even "religious" at them, which will just confuse them.
Another thing is the loudness of "religious" posters. I see myself more as a pragmatist. I have had a ME66 for 6 years, it has served me well. There are better choises there (now), but I'll change when there is a real need, not just to fulfill a gear freak satisfaction. I feel there are a number of those around who do not do much filming but more comparason testing and salivating over manufacture's net pages. If quality really was our #1 thing, we would not be shooting with miniDV, would we?
OK, a third though, totally off topic: there are a surpricing number of first time posters who have bought "the best" miniDV camera, and are totally clueless about EVERYTHING tecnical. This is reflected in questions like "I have twidled with all the buttons on my new DVX100 and have no idea what the buttons do but I get no good video?" That must be a byproduct of a (too) high standard of living in the US...
About the clipping issue: let the first poster first get the sounds into his camera as goos as possible with the present gear. If problems arise, then sell him mixers, attenuators and whatnot. Let's start simple.
-------------
The NG documentary is part of the series "Into the Unknown" called "Into the Forgoten Valley". It tells about a 7 week montaineering & geographical expedition to the Kun Lun mountains in the northern edge of the Tibetan plains. Shot mostly with a TRV-900 & ME66.
Another thing is the loudness of "religious" posters. I see myself more as a pragmatist. I have had a ME66 for 6 years, it has served me well. There are better choises there (now), but I'll change when there is a real need, not just to fulfill a gear freak satisfaction. I feel there are a number of those around who do not do much filming but more comparason testing and salivating over manufacture's net pages. If quality really was our #1 thing, we would not be shooting with miniDV, would we?
OK, a third though, totally off topic: there are a surpricing number of first time posters who have bought "the best" miniDV camera, and are totally clueless about EVERYTHING tecnical. This is reflected in questions like "I have twidled with all the buttons on my new DVX100 and have no idea what the buttons do but I get no good video?" That must be a byproduct of a (too) high standard of living in the US...
About the clipping issue: let the first poster first get the sounds into his camera as goos as possible with the present gear. If problems arise, then sell him mixers, attenuators and whatnot. Let's start simple.
-------------
The NG documentary is part of the series "Into the Unknown" called "Into the Forgoten Valley". It tells about a 7 week montaineering & geographical expedition to the Kun Lun mountains in the northern edge of the Tibetan plains. Shot mostly with a TRV-900 & ME66.
to say someone - hey there is a bridge you have to cross without mention the halls which could make found him self in the water is not enough .
better to get complete information then say - this how you do it and if you will **** it , you will learn next time .
sorry in that point i start to be very religion about half or uncompleted advice s, since these one could bring him ruin the work which will be very hard to fix later or not fix it all .
my religious is to be super pragmatic to influence on the person to ask as much he could about stuff he doesn't know and if he smart he would and if he shy this is his problem .you other hand send him with slogan "brake a leg " and don't worry it might be hospital behind the curve .
about 66 - it is a nice mike ( there are no bad mikes - there are better ones) which good for your ears or your pocket , i other hand found it not satisfied for every level of work i do ( hard news-----------------------30 sec 400000$ commercials)
so this is not about the mike you or him did choose - its about how to use it right
better to get complete information then say - this how you do it and if you will **** it , you will learn next time .
sorry in that point i start to be very religion about half or uncompleted advice s, since these one could bring him ruin the work which will be very hard to fix later or not fix it all .
my religious is to be super pragmatic to influence on the person to ask as much he could about stuff he doesn't know and if he smart he would and if he shy this is his problem .you other hand send him with slogan "brake a leg " and don't worry it might be hospital behind the curve .
about 66 - it is a nice mike ( there are no bad mikes - there are better ones) which good for your ears or your pocket , i other hand found it not satisfied for every level of work i do ( hard news-----------------------30 sec 400000$ commercials)
so this is not about the mike you or him did choose - its about how to use it right
timapter said:
usially the performers does change when you feeding the mike phantom , but that is not because this is phantom - usially it becouse the conversion of the 48 v or 12 to proper bias voltage which electret mike was design for.
the impedance of the mike changes as well .
the 1.5 and lower ( after some usage ) from the battery is some compromise to give you ability to work without phantom , usially the spl handling going down and self noise getting grater with lower voltage then it was desighn for , i dont know how does it influence on 66 since never worked with that mike without phantom and frankly dont give a a dam about that issue
This thread has been IMMENSELY helpful. In particular, Petrus's post was so clear and concise and basic, and it was EXACTLY what I needed. I was getting otherwise bamboozled by technical debates and esoteric details...when I didn't even know what the freakin' Channel select button really did. And so, yes, Petrus, basic questions posed by newbie filmmakers really do need pretty basic answers. And eventually this thread will become so full of technical squabble, it will be hard for anyone to trace the real answer again. Fortunately, yours was the first post. Oh, and I must say I did get some good additional tips from the postings from Yankee and Ptalsky above. (Yes, I bought a good camera, and I have taught myself 90% of what it can do...but the audio section is extremely thin in both the user manual and Barry Green's invaluable book.)
So thank you again for answering my simple question with a perfectly simple answer! Cheers!
So thank you again for answering my simple question with a perfectly simple answer! Cheers!
stevesherrick
Well-known member
Well, I think we can all agree that George knows his stuff. So I wouldn't discount what he says. Unfortunately, I have noticed that because of the language translation some of what he is saying might be getting lost or confused in the translation.
Now Petrus offers an example of how he has used that microphone and had good results with it, so that's a valid viewpoint as well. I think sometimes what happens is people want an easy solution, i.e. plug it in and go, and sometimes it's just not that simple. Doesn't mean you can't do it and get some useable audio, but this stuff tends to have a little bit of a learning curve that is kind of important to pay attention to. So if the pros are jumping in and making some technical recommendations, it's often worth taking notes because these folks have put in the years of experience and fortunately are willing to share. It's like free training.
Are they always right? Sometimes this stuff gets subjective as well. So you have to be able to differentiate what is opinion (same type of mics, different sound) and what is factual (DVX offers 48V phantom power). In the end if you are open to learning and are willing to go the extra mile to do things right, this type of forum can be very helpful.
Steve
Now Petrus offers an example of how he has used that microphone and had good results with it, so that's a valid viewpoint as well. I think sometimes what happens is people want an easy solution, i.e. plug it in and go, and sometimes it's just not that simple. Doesn't mean you can't do it and get some useable audio, but this stuff tends to have a little bit of a learning curve that is kind of important to pay attention to. So if the pros are jumping in and making some technical recommendations, it's often worth taking notes because these folks have put in the years of experience and fortunately are willing to share. It's like free training.
Are they always right? Sometimes this stuff gets subjective as well. So you have to be able to differentiate what is opinion (same type of mics, different sound) and what is factual (DVX offers 48V phantom power). In the end if you are open to learning and are willing to go the extra mile to do things right, this type of forum can be very helpful.
Steve
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
If somebody says they want the simplest possible solution and states the equipment they intend to use I answer to that. Since this says "Basic audio set-up" that's why I complimented Petrus on his complete answer given the setup that's going to be used.
Still I understand why the pros give more technical advice... especially when somebody implies that the basic approach is good enough for broadcast. For a soundguy those comments are discouraging because sound already doesn't get enough respect on most shoots... and once shooting's over and the project is in post the soundguy gets a lot of calls if people didn't respect the sound during shooting.
It's amazing how everybody doesn't realize how much work goes into great audio... and yet during a shoot they just expect it to sound like the great sound they heard on some show or movie. How can everybody go to church and trust that God is there when the only time they believe in sound is while they're wearing headphones (or in post).
Still I understand why the pros give more technical advice... especially when somebody implies that the basic approach is good enough for broadcast. For a soundguy those comments are discouraging because sound already doesn't get enough respect on most shoots... and once shooting's over and the project is in post the soundguy gets a lot of calls if people didn't respect the sound during shooting.
It's amazing how everybody doesn't realize how much work goes into great audio... and yet during a shoot they just expect it to sound like the great sound they heard on some show or movie. How can everybody go to church and trust that God is there when the only time they believe in sound is while they're wearing headphones (or in post).
Well ultimately I would be sorta screwed without the advice of the experts in this forum, so I take ALL the advice I can get...just some of it is over my head. And I ain't stupid or lazy neither. I'll be caught up with rest of ya soon enough. And yes, sound is so important. And most disciplines in film are "undervalued"...at least that's how we each see our own discipline. Heck, I'm a screenwriter...and it's not secret how undervalued THAT can be.
I'll be caught up with rest of ya soon enough. And yes, sound is so important. And most disciplines in film are "undervalued"...at least that's how we each see our own discipline. Heck, I'm a screenwriter...and it's not secret how undervalued THAT can be.
Jeremy Ordan
Major Contributor
MattinSTL said:
I think that Matt has hit the nail on the head. As an overly active poster in the audio thread I have said time and again whenever anyone asks what mic to buy: "No mic, hire someone". Everyone seems to think that audio is simple, hold the mic and then you get hollywood caliber sound, and this is just not the case. There are a lot of resources out there for people who can't afford to fly Oleg in to handle their sound needs on their short film. This does not mean that you can't hire someone though. In general I would say that anything that you are producing for public viewing, broadcast, or promotion should have a sound professional involved. Too many people make the mistake of thinking that they can just go out and buy a microphone and then they'll get pro sound.