Barry: are you sure you're playing fair?

Re: Barry: are you sure you're playing fair?

Sometimes I show up at the party late; in this case.

I too applaud Hyper and Barry's mellow yellow approach in this topic. Props to you both for not going INTERNETRAGE style. :D ;D That being said? I read and then re-read Barry's "Review" and still do not see where it came acroass as 'negative'; albeit a different perspective, it still was not a derogatory take on the subject. I see alot of folks more and more questioning the merit of HD/HDV and it's practicality and future potential; the bottom line being "Picking the right tool for the job..."

As an indiependent filmmaker (can I call my self that?) I would'nt fathom using the the Sony Cam. As a weddingographer or for intended 'reality' tye programming, I'd give it some thought. I'm still waiting for the day 'we' can afford an HD Set.

Perhaps Barry's honest take (even if from another point of view) has the HD supporters asking themselves these very questions? Maybe its buyers remorse?

I think content is king and am realizing this more and more everyday. I have no doubt someone is going to producd some killler work using the Sony cam, and the JVC and the Canon because CONTENT IS KING.

But thats a whole nutha thread isn't it.
 
Re: Barry: are you sure you're playing fair?

John, you're stealing my line. ;D

Content or story is king. If you move us any camera will work. Besides content its also whose behind the camera than what camera.
 
Re: Barry: are you sure you're playing fair?

I indeed did steal your line. And its the gospel. What camera should I use? Should I wait? Which camera will be best for a filmout? Should I shoot HD? Is Cineframe any good? Will deinterlacing look as good as the DVX?

These questions all have serious merit; but we tend to forget, can you entertain us? I am so content with my camera (DVX) right now. I have so much to learn and accomplish before even considering an upgrade or an advance into new technology.

My main concern is; can I make something that people actually will want to watch? It ain't happended yet. This is my focus; making shorts that look and feel like the real deal; from pre-production to post and into the final cut. From concept, to script to sound design and scores to color correction all wrapped around content.

Again, I cannot dispel the concern with all of these new choices on the market and in our 'price point' but I get the sense some people just have the need to have the LATEST AND GREATEST tools when thier craftsmanship just sucks.

If and when I get to the level of "Oh ****! I can make films!" then I'll consider the bigboy tools with greater scrutiny. When that time comes; I don't care what format is king; I'll choose the right one for my needs when I get there.

This whole conversation is one big circle; cause next year there'll be another batch of cameras and technologies arriving and then the year after that. I'd rather spend my time stressing the art of filmmaking over the art of "What camera will give me a higher resolution output upon filmout while deinterlacing the HD into 24p while my films just suck."

Now about that farmhouse and backrub.
 
Re: Barry: are you sure you're playing fair?

[quote author=Robert Niemann link=board=sony;num=1109569214;start=0#3 date=02/28/05 at 03:04:17]about, what will be shown next on the HD market, and I am also sure, that they all will point out, "that the new Panasonic ??? is not a real HD camera." So maybe the mass of potential purchasers will buy a Sony or whatever camera to be a part of the HD game, I am sure of that, too. What do You think about it?[/quote]

So DVCPROHD is not real HD Robert? So from where and from what do you draw these assumptions? Wait until NAB and you will see what I mean. Real HD, I frame only 4:2:2 color space, uncompressed audio, on dropout free memory recording, just like a digital still camera. No moving parts, no digitizing time, go from shooting to editing.

Best,

Jan
 
Re: Barry: are you sure you're playing fair?

[quote author=Hyperbolic link=board=sony;num=1109569214;start=0#14 date=02/28/05 at 14:03:45]

D'oh!  Sorry.  I meant to take that back after hearing your detailed posts.  :)

I enjoyed the debate as well and I look forward to seeing what the future holds for digital filmmaking...[/quote]

And everyone lived happily thereafter :) :D ;D ;) :) ;) :D ;D  :P

May like to follow another thread that I started today

Barry...at his best.
http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX2/YaBB.pl?board=Offtopic;action=display;num=1109769716
 
Re: Barry: are you sure you're playing fair?

Oh my god, what have I done!? :-[ Have I not already written, that by saying "HD" in actuality I meant "HDV"? Huh, that a forgotten letter can cause such misunderstandings... :-/
 
Re: Barry: are you sure you're playing fair?

Hi Robert,

When I wrote my note, I di not realize that there was a page 2 on the thread. Apology accepted, sorry for not being more observant myself.

Best,
Jan
 
Re: Barry: are you sure you're playing fair?

[quote author=Robert Niemann link=board=sony;num=1109569214;start=0#3 date=02/28/05 at 03:04:17]I just do not understand, why Panasonic is not interested in getting part of the HD community (together with Sony, Canon, JVC...) - I am sure, that this behaviour will transpire to be a very big mistake, because all the video publications (at least here in Germany) are very very curious about, what will be shown next on the HD market, and I am also sure, that they all will point out, "that the new Panasonic ??? is not a real HD camera." So maybe the mass of potential purchasers will buy a Sony or whatever camera to be a part of the HD game, I am sure of that, too. What do You think about it?[/quote]


..interesting. robert. im trying to figure out the point of that original post even if you meant to say "HDV". Why on earth would panasonic want to take a step backwards and make an HDV camera instead of the DVCPRO-HD solid state tricked out camera they are making?
 
Re: Barry: are you sure you're playing fair?

Somehow, I don't see the Panasonic not being a "real HDV camera" being a bad thing. DVCPRO-HD is already proven.
 
Re: Barry: are you sure you're playing fair?

It is just a question of who is reigning over the market and so over the behaviour of the mass of the vendees. I wanted to point out, that here in Germany many video magazines seem to push HDV, and at the same time it is difficult to find something about DVCPRO-HD. There were a lot of outstanding products in the history of technology, but because they had not have a reputation by "Lieschen Mueller" (the mass of the vendees), they had not have a big history of success. Here in Germany it is really so, that You can buy the Canon XL2 and the Sony HDR-FX1 in every store, while it is hard to find a Panasonic AG-DVX100AE somewhere. Just my impressions.
 
Re: Barry: are you sure you're playing fair?

[quote author=Jan_Crittenden link=board=sony;num=1109569214;start=15#23 date=03/02/05 at 03:42:24]

So DVCPROHD is not real HD Robert?  So from where and from what do you draw these assumptions?  Wait until NAB and you will see what I mean.  Real HD, I frame only 4:2:2 color space, uncompressed audio, on dropout free memory recording, just like a digital still camera.  No moving parts, no digitizing time, go from shooting to editing.

Best,

Jan
[/quote]

Wow ... now that's confidence in a product :D

Curiously waiting to see the real deal ....
 
Re: Barry: are you sure you're playing fair?

Robert that's not exactly true I think... I'm from germany too and the FX1 is currently harder to find/get than a DVX100. I agree that it took some time until the DVX got embraced here in contrast to the US etc. (mostly because people thought that you could deinterlace 50i to 25p easily with almost every cam - sigh!) .. but that has changed a lot in the mean time! Way many (semi) professionals here have come to appreciate the DVX100A very much!

I was considering the Z1 - like Barry did - myself but after having a more extensive look at the HDV format and the FX1 I came to the same conclusion as Barry - to wait for the new Panasonic cam. In case this won't be _the_ deal we can still get the Z1 (or even FX1 - though I'd really like to continue having XLR etc. ;o).
In my eyes the resolution of the Z1/FX1 is really nice however if you want to go the progressive route high quality wise you've got to spend quite some time/ressources into post processing (namely deinterlacing). Furthermore the high compression has really problems when movement is involved. ;-)

But I must be totally phantasizing here... as ccbatson from camcorderinfo clearly stated there is no such problem as interlaced vs. progressive or deinterlacing! ;D :P
SCNR
 
"Wait until NAB and you will see what I mean. Real HD, I frame only 4:2:2 color space, uncompressed audio, on dropout free memory recording"

JAN, YOU ROCK!!!!

And let me say that this really awesome debate has educated me about the whole HD camera issue so much! Keep it up!

As someone who does this for a living, I can say that shooting weddings and events is a whole different world than film making and commercial/industrial work. Most of us doing industrial work would NEVER show up at a shoot with a GL-1. I just wouldn't cut it. Well, I could, gorilla video style, but for what they pay and expect, you wouldn't want to risk the liability.

I'll wait until NAB. Besides, since there's no HD-DVD, what's the rush?
 
Actually HD DVD players are available now and have been for some time, best one is selling for 99 Euro and yes people are making content for them now from FX1/Z1s
 
Different terminology is necessary here. I believe you're referring to something like the Avel LinkPlayer, which can play back windows media HD files on a PC, right? It's a standard DVD player, with the ability to play back those particular WMV9 files.

Whereas HD-DVD is the name of a particular high-definition video standard, one of two leading contenders for desktop/television/etc. high-capacity blue-laser video discs, with capacities around 4x as much (or more) compared to a regular DVD. HD-DVD players don't exist yet (not that I know of, at least).
 
I believe some have shipped in Japan.

My understanding was that there was also to be a Bravo WM9 HD player (DVD) which could be connected to your HDTV set (1080i) and your home theater receiver (for 5.1). I don't know that it ever found its way to the shelves, though.
 
Yep, wait for the NAB...

Yep, wait for the NAB...

Got the Fx1e myself and really happy with il...Also no doubt that panasonic will shine at NAB with their new camera.

But Jan, How much did you say it will be?

eehh, Of course you didn't really (under 10k is not a price)

just wanted to say for those waiting for the NAB that they'd better have a serious budget. Jan, can we call a cat a cat please...I know it's in your interest that people wait for the NAB because you believe that the new panny is great( and probably will), but instead of giving a bit info here and there just let your future customers know what it's all about.(And guess what you can even do it without breatching your non disclosure agreement)

Solid state memory, lens, 24p HD... ummm let me think, oh yes there is already some on the market... the price... a bargain, $40000 +.

What I'm trying to say is that Sony release a good HDV camera that offers more than an SD camera, and we get for $3000 of hardware.

Now panasonic is going to release it HD cam, great... there is only 2 ways about it. or they will cut corners on the technology to make it affordable (Compete with sony) or they won't and it will a $10000 one. so as I said we are not talking about the same thing.

let's say that this camera does all the good thing that Jan and other are talking about, then who would then buy the $40000 cameras? Just asking, nothing personal.
 
Barry_Green said:
Whereas HD-DVD is the name of a particular high-definition video standard, one of two leading contenders for desktop/television/etc. high-capacity blue-laser video discs, with capacities around 4x as much (or more) compared to a regular DVD. HD-DVD players don't exist yet (not that I know of, at least).
Click to expand...
Actually, they do, over 60,000 HD-DVD players have been sold since October outside the USA. A big reason that they cannot sell them here is the MPAA's (and others) insistance that ther is no anaolog out from an HD-DVD player. Blue-Ray will be available to the public later this year. You will see a lot of them at NAB.
 
So...

If I have enough to buy a dvx and some accessories right now (about $3000 worth), would I have any remorse after NAB? Or will the new cam from panasonic be so much more, I wouldn't be able to afford it?
I want to use it for short narratives, music videos, and documentaries.

Regards
 
well for those application a DVX will work fine. Its gonna depends a bit of the price of the new HDX.

But let me put it this way. I bought my DVX100 the same week they annonced the DVX100A.

and after that they released XL2 and Z1

And ive still have no remorse att all for buying the orginal DVX. Any flaws in my movies aint gonna be it´s fault. Its gonna be mine as a user.

If you need a cam today buy the DVX, if you dont have to buy, wait for NAB and se what ithe new panny gonna be.
 
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