Banding at ISO100 - Sample - is this Normal?

[matt9b]

I've heard of banding at high ISO levels, but I just bought a new GH1 and am seeing strong vertical bands at all ISO's including ISO100 and 200.

I would appreciate it if someone could download the file and tell me if it's normal.

You can also see a flashing green horizontal line at the bottom right of the image here:

ISO100_04.MTS
(http://rapidshare.com/files/453899699/ISO100_04.MTS)

more examples:

ISO100_04.MTS
ISO100_03.MTS
ISO100_12.MTS

download ISO100_04.MTS to see vertical banding and horizontal green flashes at the bottom right.

In my old GH1 I never noticed any of these issues.

Is this normal? Does it just need 'burning in'?

Thanks a lot xD

 

[PJF]

Wow, that's a shocker - and that opinion is coming from someone a bit disappointed with a couple of stubborn vertical streaks slightly visible with underexposure at ISO100.

Definitely not right. If your new GH1 is new as in retail new - get rid pronto.

Interesting that the streaks seem to have different colours.

 

[swyzlstyx]

Looks pretty normal for poorly exposed footage, to my less-than-perfect eyes. Easy to duplicate on a GH1 that's got like 50-60 weddings on it, and a brand new one with no weddings on it. Going to ISO bumps it up...as it should.

1. From Your Video




2. My Video: ISO 100 from a brand new GH1



3. My Video: ISO 100 from an early GH1



4. My Video: ISO 200 from a brand new GH1

 

[matt9b]

Thanks swyzlstyx, it's not possible to see anything from your low res images. Do you have the full res ones? When I click them, it's asking for a password..

I hear what you're saying, but on my camera it also shows the same banding on fully exposed movies, I never noticed it on my old GH1. Here is an example:

http://rapidshare.com/files/453920196/ISO100_14.MTS

Do you think that at 100ISO this is still normal?

In stylistic music videos, you tend to use lighting for dramatic effect, we make use of dark shadows and careful lighting. For example, many music videos have scenes that are almost black, with a powerful studio rim light shimmering on the edge of actor's face or an object. That doesn't mean they're under-exposed, they're still well-lit for dramatic scene planned for low ISO levels. We always shoot at around 100 or 200ISO.

Have you seen the green flashing horizontal line in the bottom right hand corner on ISO100_04.MTS ? I get it on some videos. Do you get that on your camera?

Thanks a lot for going to the effort to check into this on your end, I appreciate it!

If you can let me know your password to view the images that would be great. Thanks

 

[matt9b]

Wow, that's a shocker - and that opinion is coming from someone a bit disappointed with a couple of stubborn vertical streaks slightly visible with underexposure at ISO100.

Definitely not right. If your new GH1 is new as in retail new - get rid pronto.

Interesting that the streaks seem to have different colours.

Yes it's retail new

but its a 2009 model

 

[Cosimo Bullo]

Some of the later GH1s have that problem. I had one that did too with low light at ANY ISO. We sold it and bought the GH2; no problem there.

 

[matt9b]

Looks pretty normal for poorly exposed footage, to my less-than-perfect eyes. Easy to duplicate on a GH1 that's got like 50-60 weddings on it, and a brand new one with no weddings on it. Going to ISO bumps it up...as it should.

1. From Your Video

2. My Video: ISO 100 from a brand new GH1

3. My Video: ISO 100 from an early GH1

4. My Video: ISO 200 from a brand new GH1

As well as the messages on here, I sent swyzlstyx a private message to ask for the password to his high res files, but I can see now that he has no intention of replying. rogar-Thinking(DBG

I just can't understand why someone would post images that have been reduced so much in size that no artifacts can be seen anyway. It's pointless.

No one can see the lines on his images, or on mine, because he posted such tiny image grabs!

It's really misleading for others reading this thread. It makes it look as if I'm going on about nothing. I really don't appreciate that. rogar-Sick(DBG):

Since it's a fixed pattern, the lines affect moving video. They don't really affect photos or image grabs anywhere near as much. When I look at his images, and the one he's cleaned up and posted of mine, I can't see anything wrong with them. Please post the original video files.

Back to the point, I've not seen a single GH1 video with lines anywhere near as bad as this at ISO100, not even half as bad. I appreciate that there seems to be divided opinion of whether this camera is faulty or not, but if anyone can please post some original video files off their GH1 at ISO100 it would really help me to decide whether or not to take this back. I only have around 5 days left to take it back.

Thanks a lot for your help, it's really appreciated.

 

[Soldier]

As well as the messages on here, I sent swyzlstyx a private message to ask for the password to his high res files, but I can see now that he has no intention of replying. rogar-Thinking(DBG

I just can't understand why someone would post images that have been reduced so much in size that no artifacts can be seen anyway. It's pointless.

No one can see the lines on his images, or on mine, because he posted such tiny image grabs!

It's really misleading for others reading this thread. It makes it look as if I'm going on about nothing. I really don't appreciate that. rogar-Sick(DBG):

matt9b, your post is rude - bad form, old boy. swyzlstyx hasn't got back to you for a few days and you come to the conclusion that he 'has no intention of replying'. Regardless of whether he helped you, he at least tried. I can understand your frustration with the banding - I have it too, but you don't need to take it out on someone who was trying to help.

I've used a GH1 for a few months now and I think that you're better off getting either a canon 60d or a GH2 if you want to get shots like the one described above. The GH1 is great for high detailed scenes but it is terrible in low light. The only way to get shots like that on a gh1 is to light your background about 2-2.5 stops under and crush the hell out of the blacks in post - even then it's pretty tough.

 

[CRFilms]

It doesn't matter the ISO, it's all about how much light there is. The GH1 is the worst low light DSLR, and combined with it's low bitrate can make for some horrendous shots. But it's all about light.

Here's a vid I shot with ISO 400 and some at 1000 and 1600, with different manual lenses and comparison footage with a HV20

I also tried to get the same effect shooting at iso 100 just now, and I did see some banding, but not as much as you. If you can't return it, then just use it for properly lit/exposes shots and you shouldn't be dissapointed and use another cam for night shots.

 

[matt9b]

Here's a vid I shot with ISO 400 and some at 1000 and 1600

Going by your vimeo footage, I'd be completely happy with that result. Mine wouldn't even get close to that. My videos are like looking through a dirty glass smudged with straight lines of some kind of vaseline. Looks like the second poster is correct, my cam is definitely faulty. Frustrating as I've invested a lot of cash & time on lenses for this cam and now can't find anywhere to sell me a working model. I'm not a fussy shooter at all and even by my standard, this is unusable for video.

use another cam for night shots.

It's not about night shots, I bought this cam for making music vids.



I already owned a GH1 last year and never had this problem. I got this GH1 for its compatibility with lenses and the GH13 hack.

Are you saying this cam isn't good for making shots like the above?

Is it not possible to find a GH13 compatible cam without such extreme banding issues?

I was outside filming in daylight yesterday and banding is noticeable at ISO100. It's to a point where its distracting for the common eye.

It seems hard to believe I never noticed this on my previous GH1. Please check my links on the first post. I'll post a daylight ISO100 with banding when I get a chance.

 

[CRFilms]

Yeah...I saw three and mine is about half as bad as those at that iso and low light in a quick test I did. Did you see Eyepatch entertainment and what he said to try and minimize banding.

I shot some low light tests of me holding a bare cheap light bulb and seeing how it looked and I was happy with the results. I won't show these cause you could see EVERY pore, black head, scraggily hair....my ego couldn't take it. If you shine light directly into the lens while minimzing flares you could get some good results. You don't even have to minimize the flares. A few nice flares here and there could look real artistic. Most people won't know it's a mistake or limitation unless you tell them.

If you have a hackable model....have you hacked it and did hacking make it better? If you have no other option you may just have to get real creative with lighting.

EDIT: Just saw the one where you looked at the ceiling light. That is way more than I'm getting. Have you tried different lens combinations? Most of my footage is stationary, and I plan on keeping it that way cause of the various jello/shudder issues. Any shake makes my images look horrible.

I just uploaded a quick test at ISO 100 and a wide open old Minolta MD 50mm 1:1.7 lens http://www.mediafire.com/?5vp9d3fn94lp6o6 I start at iso 100 then stop the lens down till it's fairly dark. The middle exposure scale(?) was -3 at the end. I'm very satisfied how that looks and more important how solid the blacks look. Not sure the exact wattage but it's the cheapest walmart had a year ago.

 

[swyzlstyx]

As well as the messages on here, I sent swyzlstyx a private message to ask for the password to his high res files, but I can see now that he has no intention of replying. rogar-Thinking(DBG

I just can't understand why someone would post images that have been reduced so much in size that no artifacts can be seen anyway. It's pointless.

No one can see the lines on his images, or on mine, because he posted such tiny image grabs!

It's really misleading for others reading this thread. It makes it look as if I'm going on about nothing. I really don't appreciate that. rogar-Sick(DBG):

Since it's a fixed pattern, the lines affect moving video. They don't really affect photos or image grabs anywhere near as much. When I look at his images, and the one he's cleaned up and posted of mine, I can't see anything wrong with them. Please post the original video files.

Back to the point, I've not seen a single GH1 video with lines anywhere near as bad as this at ISO100, not even half as bad. I appreciate that there seems to be divided opinion of whether this camera is faulty or not, but if anyone can please post some original video files off their GH1 at ISO100 it would really help me to decide whether or not to take this back. I only have around 5 days left to take it back.

Thanks a lot for your help, it's really appreciated.

Have you tried hugging a nut? Moron.