FS7: Balancing an FS7 - a year down the line

[Joshua Milligan]

Generally, I hate VST plates, but the new Sony VCT-U14 plate is surprisingly sturdy. I bought it because I have a job which requires a lot of handheld on a rig that usually has lots of gunk attached. I've paired it with the Tilta baseplate which works pretty well. Here's a shot of it in a fairly stripped down mode.
View attachment 107865

Liam, how are you not supporting that lens?

 

[moldcad]

Well - after I purchased my Shogun Inferno for recording from the A7 (which I never bought after the GH5 parameters announcement), in order to enable 50p recording in 10bit which HDMI-out doesn't allow on the FS7, I also bought the XDCA adapter (and of course V-lock batteries) so that I could use RAW SDI output. Now the camera is much better balanced on the shoulder, and just looking at it I've been wondering if replacing the pathetic OEM shoulder pad with something more substantial would be possible (without adding any plate - just a thicker shoulder pad). What do you think guys - possible to make one to fit?

Piotr

PS. Even with the OEM shoulder pad, the camera with XDCA adapter and V-lock battery attached does balance much better on the shoulder - you can actually feel its weight ON the shoulder, and not AGAINST it at the front; it no more has this tendency to slip down, so your arms can more freely be used on the controls (the grip and the lens).

 

[moldcad]

Perhaps I should add that I'm using the Kwik Release system from Kessler, which enables dropping camera on tripod "vertically" rather than sliding it in "horizontally" like you do with traditional, simple tripod plates of Manfrotto type. This enables quick parking on the tripod without the need of relocating the control arm, which - with slide-in configuration - would not clear the tripod head. The Kwik Release receiver elevates the camera, which my posted photo clearly shows; this generally is the only disadvantage of this otherwise ingenious solution (as the higher the CoG increases the payload and requires more robust tripod head). But at the same time, it creates more room between the camera bottom and the tripod head for a thicker/more comfortable shoulder pad...

I wonder if the new Vocas shoulder pad (a part of their new FS7 base plate) could be adapted to be attached straight to the camera, using the original OEM pad's fixing screws? Do you think it's a viable idea that manufacturers like SmallRig could be made interested in developing and producing?

Piotr

 

[Plini]

The new Vocas plate

The new Vocas plate

I have a similar setup with a shape small plate and the gel shoulder pad.

After my first tests I removed the shoulder pad as it lifts the camera body rather high in the air (the base plate is under the body with the rails below and the shoulder pad attaches with a nice quick lock to these rails so from my shoulder to the original bottom of the FS7 body there is about 7-8cm) making it very unstable left right.

The new vocas plate might not be as flexible with the attachment of the shoulder pad but has the shoulder pad almost as close to the camera body as the original rubber pad.

I think Balance can only be acvhieved by adding weight at the back and I will get the Extension (for RAW) and add V-Lock Batteries.

So very interested to see any pictures and any experience with the new vocas plate!

 

[moldcad]

Exactly my thoughts, too - don't want to elevate the rig's CoG too high. While the Vocas plate mk ii indeed does it only minimally, I'm still tempted to attach some shoulder pad directly to the camera, replacing the OEM one, and without any plate at all... This would make an almost perfect minimalist shoulder rig...

In case I need the front rails (for FF or MB, or lens support with longer lenses), I already do have a "fully blown" shoulder support rig with rails and and a rail-mounted pad - but this I'd use very rarely.

Piotr

 

[JPNola]

Exactly my thoughts, too - don't want to elevate the rig's CoG too high.
Piotr

I went with the Chrosziel plate because it keeps the CoG lower than any other VCT-style should plate. Many owners like the Zacuto plate but for me it positions the camera too far back on the shoulder. While that helps with fore / aft balance it places the side controls and the lens iris too far back for my liking. You end up having to reach around your face. I use the extension unit, full size Olivine batts, and a Wooden Camera D-box, so the setup isn't as front heavy as it would be with a more stripped-down camera using the smaller "internal" batteries.

The Chrosziel plate follows the line of the bottom of the Fs7 and more looks like part of the camera than the shoulder plates that are flat and have the camera body more "stuck" on top of the plate rather than down in the plate.




Ben and others like to run their rig fly-weight and find the VCT plate too heavy. But even with the VCT shoulder plate / extension unit / full size batteries / D-box, the rig is still far under the weight of an Amira. And my setup is likely still lighter than a Varicam / HDX900. It isn't a back killer by any means. Too light a rig can make for less stable long-lens shots. Or, as I call it, "the jitters".

 

[Ben Scott]

Speaking of which, and as part of a downsize while I transition to another camera, if anyone wants to buy my Hawk Woods V-Mount plate it is in the marketplace....

 

[morgan_moore]

The trouble.. IMO with all those bases that hug the bottom of the camera is that while they do both look cool and keep the COFM low they just do not allow fore aft balance apart from maybe with a light lens and rear timecode box and Vlock. They have no option to readjust balance with lens changes.

The arri rigged Amera, and the FS7/Zacuto plate (and my own DIY rig) offer proper ability to slide the camera fore/aft with lens changes creating absolute balance for sticks and shoulder.

The poor positioning of the controls (who uses them while rolling? I dont) is just a quirk of the sony design in that the camera is fundamentally a poor shape for balance, with the short lead on the stock monitor exacerbating that.

The design of the rig is worsened for vertical balance by the Vlock sitting high which is plain dumb, especially by 3rd parties like HWoods who could have made the batt sit lower.

The front mount of the camera does not help either.. if the thing was flat one could tie the camera down at the rear too.

Fundamentally the F5/C500 are better shaped, the FS7 should have not been designed by a hipster, it would have been more practical and better if modelled on a Jaffa cake box.

Back to the core point.. IMO a shoulder pad there never works.

S

 

[Ben Scott]

Arri-compatible Dovetail >>>> VCT Plate. Yeah, I said it.

But also the C500 isn't better shaped than anything.

 

[morgan_moore]

Doh - I meant C700!

S

 

[JPNola]

Well - after I purchased my Shogun Inferno for recording from the A7 (which I never bought after the GH5 parameters announcement), in order to enable 50p recording in 10bit which HDMI-out doesn't allow on the FS7, I also bought the XDCA adapter (and of course V-lock batteries) so that I could use RAW SDI output. Now the camera is much better balanced on the shoulder, and just looking at it I've been wondering if replacing the pathetic OEM shoulder pad with something more substantial would be possible (without adding any plate - just a thicker shoulder pad). What do you think guys - possible to make one to fit?

Piotr

PS. Even with the OEM shoulder pad, the camera with XDCA adapter and V-lock battery attached does balance much better on the shoulder - you can actually feel its weight ON the shoulder, and not AGAINST it at the front; it no more has this tendency to slip down, so your arms can more freely be used on the controls (the grip and the lens).

That wedge plate doesn't cut into your shoulder? Seems like it would be uncomfortable. Same for the Arri-compatible Dovetail that Ben uses. And should you want to use rear-rails for mounting wireless receivers, well, it's a no-go.

I'm with you on the design of the Sony extension unit placing the battery to high up. That is one reason I use the Olivines, they are more of a block shape and keep the weight lower. They barely extend above the rear of the unit. That and I was able to purchase the Olivines for an insanely low price from F5 owners who didn't need them as a result of already owning Anton Bauers. ( I picked up a Sony charger and 2 Olivines for $700. Retail price is around $2k. ) The one hour charge time from empty to full is great peace of mind. I don't know of any other full-size batt / charger combo which can touch that.

Sliding the camera onto the plate horizontally isn't an issue for me because I rarely use the Sony grip / arm, and the times I do use it I have it mounted horizontally. It doesn't interfere with VCT plate mounting when positioned that way. Re-balancing the camera with each lens swap? Not something I often have the time for. And I okay with a bit of front-heaviness. Better than back-heavy. Accessing side controls- from time to time I need to access the gain switch, the W/B switch, and toggle the exposure guides on and off. And sometimes ride the audio level. Going sans control grip means having to access the side controls more than if running with the grip.

F5 design is better in some ways, worse in others. The way the headphone connector sticks out into the side of your head / neck- not good. Same with the XLR inputs that are perpendicular to the camera body and cause the XLR connectors / cables to jut out from the side of the camera. I've snagged those on something more than a few times.

No right or wrong here. I like hearing about how others run their rig and seeing the photos of other rigs, so keep 'em coming! And I admit there are times where I am envious of Ben's ultralight setup. We really are spoiled by all the accessories and upgrades that have come out since the Fs7 was released. I think we can all agree that it is a great camera for the price and despite all the talk of how quickly a new camera model becomes obsolete or at least out of style, the Fs7 is still going strong. It really does provide a lot of bang for the buck. I give credit to Sony for hearing the feedback and implementing features and changes accordingly on the Fs7II.

 

[JPNola]

How about a shoulder plate AND a dovetail?

I can only imagine how much this combo costs, being that it is ARRI.

 

[Ben Scott]

Just the tiniest bit front heavy there I reckon.

Edit: Just to add, a dovetail clamp on the FS7 has zero impact on the ability to run rear rails.

 

[JPNola]

Just the tiniest bit front heavy there I reckon.

Nothing that couldn't be solved with a bit of counterweight on the rear...

 

[moldcad]

Since having added the XDCA and V-mount batteries to my setup, I fell I need a more serious rig after all - preferably low, with shoulder pad and a left handle attached as taking my current rig from the tripod (which one usually does from its left side) became very uncomfortable and dangerous to its integrity sometimes

What do you guys think of this Vocas kit (particularly the handle)? BTW why they don't paint the metal handle parts black beats me:

Piotr

 

[broughtonfilm]

Since having added the XDCA and V-mount batteries to my setup, I decided I need a more serious rig after all - preferably low, with shoulder pad and a left handle attached as taking my current rig from the tripod (which one usually does from its left side) became very uncomfortable and dangerous to its integrity sometimes

What do you guys think of this Vocas kit (particularly the handle)? BTW why they don't paint it black beats me:

Piotr

The whole point of using a wooden handle is to take advantage of wood's natural property of not becoming slippery in contact with sweaty hands. I think Aaton used it first in their excellent design. Painting it black defeats the purpose.

 

[JPNola]

The whole point of using a wooden handle is to take advantage of wood's natural property of not becoming slippery in contact with sweaty hands. I think Aaton used it first in their excellent design. Painting it black defeats the purpose.

Maybe moldcad was talking about the arm and not the handle?

I've had my eye on this ebony wood handle from Movi Grip just for the cool factor-




Moldcad- If you are really wanting something in black you could sand and wood stain that handle from Vocas a near-black color, or consider a simple handle like this one from small rig which I believe is the one that Ben Scott uses-

http://www.smallrig.com/SMALLRIG-Black-Leather-Rosette-Handle-1119.html



You could mount it on an arm like this one, also from Smallrig-




Personally, I don't care for having a handle on the left side of the camera since my left hand is going to be riding focus. I don't like the idea of moving my left hand from lens to handle, back to lens, back to handle, etc. In my mind the left hand should ALWAYS be on the lens riding focus and iris, if using a manual iris lens. That is the left hand's duty and anytime the left hand is not on the lens you are risking delay in needed focusing action. And potentially upsetting the horizontal of the recorded image by transferring weight out of the left hand and into the right hand in order to readdress the lens with left hand. The only purpose I see for a handle on the left side is to act as a kickstand in counter to any handle on the right side positioned at a downward angle. For the times when you place the camera down and don't want to have to lay the camera on it's side.

The wood ball system I use fits nicely in the palm of the left hand as the left hand operates focus, zoom, & iris. I'll sometimes hook my left thumb under the 15mm rail, use forefinger to ride iris, middle finger to ride zoom, and ring finger / pinky finger combo to ride focus. That is how I would operate the ENG zooms. But it isn't for everyone and there is no right or wrong in regard to personal ergonomics and preferences -




Here is Ben's rig again:




Ben, that black and white image of your rig is everywhere as a result of it's badass-ness, my man!

 

[moldcad]

@JPNola, I indeed meant the color of Vocas metal handle, not the wooden grip - wood is wood, and best if left unpainted!

I also like and share your comments about moving my left arm from the handle to the lens rings and back, and how this can cause the camera to roll sideways when one of the support points is removed momentarily. But due to my neck spine problems, I guess I still need a left handle - if only for the very moment of detaching the rig from tripod, and elevating it to my shoulder; with the FS7 control arm far in the right front it's very inconvenient for me and causes pain in my neck & arms...After the rig's weight is already on my shoulder, those disability issues of mine become much less troublesome

Still, I'm open for suggestions on a better solution (but would like to keep the new Vocas low-profile plate&pad, because elevating the rig CoG too much as other "sandwich-like" base plates do is another thing I'd definitely like to avoid). Thanks,

Piotr

PS. Ben Scott's arms and handle from Smallrig also look interesting, but this sort of solution is best for someone not using the OEM arm & control grip a lot; also his super-duper "black spider rig" looks pretty high, too. Unless you men keeping the Vocas plate and OEM arm/grip, but simply replacing the left handle assembly with the 2 Smallrig parts you posted pictures of? This may sound like an idea - thanks!

 

[morgan_moore]

Just to re-open an old fetish.. (handheld)

I am firmly convinced that focussing with the right hand is where it is at.

Lifting the right onto the lens flattens the shoulder and gives good horizon also the body sits much better

I still use a right handle but my forearm touches that. (and it helps ground sitting the camera)

S

 

[Ben Scott]

Ben, that black and white image of your rig is everywhere as a result of it's badass-ness, my man!

Haha really? It's been a bit streamlined since then as I've replaced the top handle with a more low profile nato solution, but the handles and smallrig grips are still going strong and that Zacuto shoulder pad is absolutely brilliantly for fast transition to sticks or handheld. Although again these days I'm rocking shorter arms on the grips as well.

Re having two handles, makes sense for me because I'm not always always pulling focus. Sometimes I'm at a nice healthy F4 or F5.6 at 35mm shooting a talking head and I'd rather have both hands on the rig. If I really need to micro focus in this instance you can gently lean in or lean back a smidge depending on your subject.

Sam, right-hand focusing is the work of the devil and might get you burned as a witch. Although with your Nikons focusing the wrong way too maybe there is a perverse logic to it - Glad to see the studio coming on by the way!