GH5 Balanced camera rig help

PaPa

PaPa

Major Contributor
Hey gang,

I need some advice. I'm very tired of having a rig that is front heavy and would like something that can quickly go from tripod to shoulder while maintaining a proper level of balance when on tripod. How do I get a good center of gravity on a tripod with this type of setup? The quick release plate is way too far back and I can't figure out a way to center it without removing the follow focus and grips.

I've been running a setup similar to this for a while, and without adding a camera monitor to the back, there is no easy way to get this thing well balanced on a tripod. When a rail system needs to accomodate space for a follow focus, mattebox, grips, etc.. there is not enough room to a manfrotto quick release plate in between the camera body and mattebox.

What setups could you suggest? Thanks!

ljFyAI2.jpg
 
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Toss this on the back empty 15mm rods to be a good power source, too:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...zM8_w9fSWwmKS1jy8YaGVikvpRoCI5oQAvD_BwE&smp=y

Sort of a quasi counterweight but actually has function, yet simpler and lighter than a full v-mount option. Still universal. Regarding rebalancing a rig without counterweight... well as I see it, you have too options. Remove weight from the front, or add weight to the back.

Do you really need the mattebox? Can you flip the handle to be rear facing (that'll have minimal impact, but just trying to see ways to stop your weight shift from being so forward).
 
I'll preface by saying that I've yet to see a dslr shoulder rig that is totally convincing.

Having said that, I think your handles need to be attached to the front end of your rods. Your follow focus is also grabbing the focus ring at its rear-most point if I'm seeing it correctly. Move that to the other extreme, riding the front most possible part of the focus ring. Both of those will shift the weight forward, which is not what you are after, but it will also create space to move your plate underneath the movcam base rather than behind it. I don't actually believe in any of what I'm typing because I think there are other issues that get created. ; ) However, it addresses some of your concerns. After doing all of that, you will still need some weight added in the rear to make it balanced. There is no such thing as a dslr/matte box/FF combo that is naturally balanced from fore to aft without adding stuff to the rear. How could it be? Everything is in front of the camera.

My biggest issues is that once you get a dslr shoulder rig far enough back, you need an evf since I can't see a monitor that is mounted so close to my face...at least with my vision.
 
The Mattebox isn’t optically centered, nor light sealed to the lens, so suspect your using it mostly as a shade. Also looks excessively bulky, & a bit heavy, partially due to it’s riser.

The base of the Follow Focus is also bulky, & you’d be better served by a low profile version that didn’t extend so far below the rails.

Due to various issues I gave up on adopting the GH(s) for shoulder work years ago, & primarily use it as a “Box” camera.

The Cat and the Box, A Series of Cinematographic Essays.
by Zack Zamboni

Part 1 of 3, The Camera’s Form
https://medium.com/the-myth-of-capt...says-part-1-of-3-the-cameras-form-d833106e1ee

Part 2 of 3, Energy and Design.
https://medium.com/the-myth-of-capt...ys-part-2-of-3-energy-and-design-cf06eb0e98fd

Part 3 of 3, A Camera with Two Faces.
https://medium.com/the-myth-of-capt...t-3-of-3-a-camera-with-two-faces-fc487f2b0491

To this end I strive to keep whatever components I do attach as lightweight, & compact, as possible. To me this is the spirit of m4/3, especially the GH5 with it’s IBIS, & if I need a “Cat on the Shoulder” (aka “Balance camera”) I’ll use my FS7, or similarly designed rental.

Not trying to dissuade you from using the GH5 as a “Cat”, but if I were in your position I’d consider replacing the Mattebox with a Zip Box from Wooden Camera. These are primarily intended for use with Gimbals, & Drones, but their form factor could suit the GH well, plus they’re relatively inexpensive. There are a handful of options that vary depending on the size, & number, of filters you’d want to attach, as well as Top, & Side, Flags.

You might also consider replacing your Follow Focus with a Zip Focus, again from Wooden Camera. It’s reasonable priced, at least compared to many others, but what intrigues me most is it’s compact design.

Note I haven’t used either of these items, but have heard a few good reports from others.

https://www.woodencamera.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=Zip&Submit=Submit
 
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Bern Caughey said:
The Mattebox isn’t optically centered, nor light sealed to the lens, so suspect your using it mostly as a shade. Also looks excessively bulky, & a bit heavy, partially due to it’s riser.

The base of the Follow Focus is also bulky, & you’d be better served by a low profile version that didn’t extend so far below the rails.

Due to various issues I gave up on adopting the GH(s) for shoulder work years ago, & primarily use it as a “Box” camera.

The Cat and the Box, A Series of Cinematographic Essays.
by Zack Zamboni

Part 1 of 3, The Camera’s Form
https://medium.com/the-myth-of-capt...says-part-1-of-3-the-cameras-form-d833106e1ee

Part 2 of 3, Energy and Design.
https://medium.com/the-myth-of-capt...ys-part-2-of-3-energy-and-design-cf06eb0e98fd

Part 3 of 3, A Camera with Two Faces.
https://medium.com/the-myth-of-capt...t-3-of-3-a-camera-with-two-faces-fc487f2b0491

To this end I strive to keep whatever components I do attach as lightweight, & compact, as possible. To me this is the spirit of m4/3, especially the GH5 with it’s IBIS, & if I need a “Cat on the Shoulder” (aka “Balance camera”) I’ll use my FS7, or similarly designed rental.

If I were in your position I’d consider replacing the Mattebox, with a Zip Box from Wooden Camera. These are primarily designed for use with Gimbals, & Drones, but their lightweight, & compact, design could suit the GH well, plus they’re relatively inexpensive. There are a handful of styles that vary on the size, & number, of filters you’d want to attach, as well as optional Top, & Side, Flags.

You might also consider replacing your Follow Focus with a Zip Focus, again from Wooden Camera. It’s reasonable priced, at least compared to many others, but what intrigues me most is it’s compact design.

Note I haven’t used either of these items, but have heard a few good reports from others.

https://www.woodencamera.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=Zip&Submit=Submit
Click to expand...

Great advice, thanks Bern!

any idea on how to balance this kind of thing on a tripod? I've seen a product on various setups, but unfortunately i do not recall the name. But it basically looks like a HUGE manfrotto release plate under the camera that runs maybe 10" in length. The plate itself is a shoulder rig but also provides a quick release, on top, that mounts and dismounts the entire rail system + camera + ff + mattebox.

I've now got it down to a similar seutp as before.

bcIv3Sm.jpg


And yes, the mattebox is 99% used as a shade as I don't own 4x4 filters. But this is how it is at the moment. I had to add the second stage of rails so that the lens would be in line with the mattebox.. What a clunky old thing. The FF stops the mattebox from getting closer. The closer the mattebox, the more difficult it is to remove from the tripod. At some point, everything has to slide. I'm dreaming of this piece I don't know the name of.
 
PaPa said:
to be specific, I would like to figure out a camera rig setup that allows for my quick release plate to be closer to the center of gravity without adding counter weights.
Click to expand...

Besides considering everything everyone is mentioning here, you could probably also use a longer tripod plate/VCT-14 style plate plus some sort of adapter box on top of that which would allow sliding/shifting of the entire configuration and also probably offer better shoulder support.

Maybe something like this: https://www.datavideo.com/us/product/SLD-1

The VCT-14 plate in that picture has multiple mounting points on the bottom of it for your own tripod plate.

Or maybe just a different baseplate/rods that would allow the shifting, but either way you'd still probably have to change that mattebox bottom sticking out and the configuration of those grips.
 
PaPa,

Are you thinking about an Arri dovetail? Your Movcam’s riser has a compatible quick release built-in, but I’ve never tested it.

Wooden Camera makes Shoulder Rigs based around the Arri dovetail, but they’re a bit pricey, & I’m not sure if there are clones.
 
If i could swap the C200 for a DSRL, I would want this setup:

1516644106000_IMG_933295.jpg


Looks like it would be very easy to center this on a tripod.
 
Not to stir up the discussion or be contrarian, just food for thought... and echoing a bit of Bern here...

Especially the second picture... why?

The mattebox is essentially a shade. Why not just use a lens hood?

Do you really even need the follow focus? If so, how about the Edelkrone follow focus one?

Sometimes the more I kit things out, the slower I get and the worse footage I get. If it doesn’t help improve the footage, the only real point is to impress the client? Not a bad idea necessarily just encouraging you to think outside the box.

I wonder if your image would look 99% the same with a lens hood (or zip hood), drop the top handle and replace with a small monitor like a Ninja V or smallHD focus, and getting the size waaaayyyy down.

I’m sure you have your reasons but something to think about... I agree with Bern... smaller the better especially when it comes to m43.
 
Hey Filmguy,

I can definitey answer your questions, even though it detracts from the focus and question. I understand why you're asking, but trying to find a work around is not what I'm after. And starting to pick apart and quesiton if a filmmaker needs X or Y piece of gear is a bit ... well... it would be helpful if I were new to the game.

I'm looking for a solution. A few seem to know what I'm after based on responses so let's focus on that.

filmguy123 said:
Not to stir up the discussion or be contrarian, just food for thought... and echoing a bit of Bern here...

Especially the second picture... why?

The mattebox is essentially a shade. Why not just use a lens hood?

Do you really even need the follow focus? If so, how about the Edelkrone follow focus one?

Sometimes the more I kit things out, the slower I get and the worse footage I get. If it doesn’t help improve the footage, the only real point is to impress the client? Not a bad idea necessarily just encouraging you to think outside the box.

I wonder if your image would look 99% the same with a lens hood (or zip hood), drop the top handle and replace with a small monitor like a Ninja V or smallHD focus, and getting the size waaaayyyy down.

I’m sure you have your reasons but something to think about... I agree with Bern... smaller the better especially when it comes to m43.
Click to expand...

No need to echo Bern's comments. let's just focus on the solution I'm after. Can i replace EVERYTHING with something smaller and lighter? Yes. Will that help balance? Yes. But that's not what I'm after.

1) lens hoods don't provide sufficient coverage for the type of work I do.
2) Yes. lol. I absolutely need a follow focus. (sigh)
It's frustrating to read a question like this "I don't need one, so are you sure you do?" - you have no idea what kind of work I do filmguy :) The things I use are there for a reason. The pieces I have to hold them together? Not so much. These are mostly pieces from the old IndiFocus systems they used to sell. Anyone remember those? lol
3) I'm all about keeping things small. But I've been working with the same modular rails and doo dads for almost a decade! The pieces are big and clunky haha. Makes for a difficult time piecing these things together.

If i had a few grand to blow, I'd definitely pick up that beautiful edelkrone follow focus and monitor. These are the tools I have at my disposal.

Anyway, back on topic.

So, this lovely dovetail thing, looking at it now and looking at my configuration...I imagine it would sit under my rig where my manfrotto quick release plate would sit and then mount a quick release plate somewhere under it?
 
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No worries! Just throwing it out there because sometimes I’ve been stuck in a rut of thinking one way and someone here has made a comment that presented a solution totally outside of what I was originally thinking. It’s easy for me to get stuck on solving one problem rather than changing the baseline. But... carry on ;)
 
filmguy123 said:
No worries! Just throwing it out there because sometimes I’ve been stuck in a rut of thinking one way and someone here has made a comment that presented a solution totally outside of what I was originally thinking. It’s easy for me to get stuck on solving one problem rather than changing the baseline. But... carry on ;)
Click to expand...

S'all good. Appreciate you taking the time to try and help! Cheers.
 
Without seeing your rig in person, it's hard know what will work and what won't. I think moving the quick release plate under the horizontal handle bar would solve your problem. A couple 1/4"-20 to 15mm clamps centered on the horizontal handle bar would provide a mounting point for your quick release plate (if you drilled out custom holes in the QR plate) or a cheese plate.
 
To be frank there is no way to achieve balance on this rig and none of the components that I see in this setup add any real functionality and actually make this an impossible setup to work with. That mattebox pnly adds bulk, that followfocus is too crappy to actually work properly all together there is no way this contraption slides smoothly on that slider mounted on that tripod. I couldn’t shoot anything with that and I am questioning the reason you are doing this to yourself


PaPa said:
Hey gang,

I need some advice. I'm very tired of having a rig that is front heavy and would like something that can quickly go from tripod to shoulder while maintaining a proper level of balance when on tripod. How do I get a good center of gravity on a tripod with this type of setup? The quick release plate is way too far back and I can't figure out a way to center it without removing the follow focus and grips.

I've been running a setup similar to this for a while, and without adding a camera monitor to the back, there is no easy way to get this thing well balanced on a tripod. When a rail system needs to accomodate space for a follow focus, mattebox, grips, etc.. there is not enough room to a manfrotto quick release plate in between the camera body and mattebox.

What setups could you suggest? Thanks!

ljFyAI2.jpg
Click to expand...
 
icarusfilm said:
To be frank there is no way to achieve balance on this rig and none of the components that I see in this setup add any real functionality and actually make this an impossible setup to work with. That mattebox pnly adds bulk, that followfocus is too crappy to actually work properly all together there is no way this contraption slides smoothly on that slider mounted on that tripod. I couldn’t shoot anything with that and I am questioning the reason you are doing this to yourself
Click to expand...

I've got a setup that I'm decently happy with now,

ATl6xTrh.jpg


No argument with your points. The components are old and bulky and do nothing to help balance. When budget allows, I'll adjust things as I can. As to your concern about the sliding, you're right. The current setup works much better, still less than ideal, but much better and is very well balanced. Things go a little crazy when the rig goes on my shoulders, but my shoulder rig support system helps take care of the weight.
 
I had a symilar issue to you....mine was due to insufficient fore and aft movement...found a Sony VCT 14 plate (the all metal one) for a good price on EBay....I have a Zacuto base plate with built in shoulderpad and VCT mount compatible...to balance between heavy and light lenses I added a long Manfrotto quick release plate that lets me move everything forwarded or backwards depending on weight. Small rig however makes the same universal Baseplate that already has that fore and aft adjustment built in, and has a pair of "Arri" rosettes built into the rig should you want to attach an arm with triggering grip down the road....the Small Rig plate is 200 and very nicely made....the Zacuto is 600...as budget allows you may take a look at that.
 
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