Bad People Suck

PK what do you hope to accomplish by confronting this guy?

You know you live in a culture where the value of human life is not that high and sure you have friends high up the government food chain who will attend your funeral. There is no doubt this guy is pond scum but his sexual proclivities are none of your business and you are not going to be able to change the behavior of the prostitutes who frequent his apartment. This isn’t “Pretty Woman” prostitution is ingrained in the Thai culture, these woman don’t want your help.

So good intention aside, all you will accomplish is pissing off the hookers, the pimp and possibly get your ass kicked (or worse) as a result from ****ing with a rich foreigner who apparently has been there for some time and might very well know how to follow through on his threat.

Thailand is a wonderful place and if you want to make a difference great go for it, but be smart – pick your battles carefully [a full frontal assault in this culture is usually a bad idea], don’t jeopardize you career or your life to clean up something that no one there really wants to clean up. I know most of the people who have posted on this thread will think this is cowardly; I also know very few have ever lived in this type of culture and this has the potential to go from funny to deadly serious in seconds. It’s easy to be brave over the internet but you are the only one this will effect.

A graphic artist friend of mine worked for a company in Thailand for almost five months, the production company owed him almost $50K, one day someone knocked on his door told him he was fired and to leave. When he showed up to work to demand his paycheck they almost beat him to death. He spent three months in the hospital and when he was well enough to leave the State Department told him to go home and consider himself lucky to be alive. As far as Sonny knows nothing happened to anyone at the company he worked for – it was just another day in the office for them.

Be careful.
 
chucks, scope out the ages PK cites for the girls. doesn't really sound like a pissed off hooker type of situation. you make alot of good points, but we think PK has made his decision to stand up for what he believes in and is aware of the possible concequences.
PK, glad to hear more from you. keep us posted. :)
 
Yeah, I'd be inclined to leave it alone if the girls were in their 20s, but not if they're as young as 14. I probably wouldn't have confronted the guy directly, but calling the police was the right thing to do. All the best, PK. I hope this all ends well.
 
i_&_t said:
chucks, scope out the ages PK cites for the girls. doesn't really sound like a pissed off hooker type of situation. you make alot of good points, but we think PK has made his decision to stand up for what he believes in and is aware of the possible concequences.
PK, glad to hear more from you. keep us posted. :)
Click to expand...
You think 14 year old girls are young prostitutes? In Thailand they are approaching retirement age. I assume by your reply you have never been to Thailand or truly understand the culture of many of the developing nations. Half the time the pimp is the girls’ mother.

I never said that PK shouldn't stand up for what he believes, but there is no point in fighting a battle you can't win. That's why I asked what he was hoping to accomplish by confronting this person.

All this rah rah **** about protecting the downtrodden sounds great on the web, but the consequence to PK is a sever beating resulting in death for less than $50. And for what?
 
ChuckS said:
You think 14 year old girls are young prostitutes? In Thailand they are approaching retirement age. I assume by your reply you have never been to Thailand or truly understand the culture of many of the developing nations. Half the time the pimp is the girls’ mother.

I never said that PK shouldn't stand up for what he believes, but there is no point in fighting a battle you can't win. That's why I asked what he was hoping to accomplish by confronting this person.

All this rah rah **** about protecting the downtrodden sounds great on the web, but the consequence to PK is a sever beating resulting in death for less than $50. And for what?
Click to expand...

no, we don't think 14 is "young" by a global standard (but it ****ing should be, and we're sure you agree). with regard to the mother/pimp thing, that's sadly EVERY nation, not just the "developing" ones. we have not been to Thailand, but we have other friends there besides PK. we travel alot, and probably the nastiest **** we have personally experienced was in Africa, but that's not for this thread. we did not mean to imply that you had said PK shouldn't stand up for what he believes, and we really meant the good points comment. we also agree that as ****ed up as what he has to be near is, if he came to harm over it no good would come of it. sorry if our post seemed bitter towards you. one thing though, it's only rah rah bullshit if you decide it feels that way. every time someone acts, or reads about someone acting, against this sort of thing a SMALL move is made towards GLOBAL headspace improving. :)
 
krestofre said:
I read somewhere that if you can run at least 10 feet away from a guy with a gun then his chances of hitting you decrease by like 90%.
Click to expand...
Unless he has a shotgun.
 
i_&_t said:
no, we don't think 14 is "young" by a global standard (but it ****ing should be, and we're sure you agree). with regard to the mother/pimp thing, that's sadly EVERY nation, not just the "developing" ones. we have not been to Thailand, but we have other friends there besides PK. we travel alot, and probably the nastiest **** we have personally experienced was in Africa, but that's not for this thread. we did not mean to imply that you had said PK shouldn't stand up for what he believes, and we really meant the good points comment. we also agree that as ****ed up as what he has to be near is, if he came to harm over it no good would come of it. sorry if our post seemed bitter towards you. one thing though, it's only rah rah bullshit if you decide it feels that way. every time someone acts, or reads about someone acting, against this sort of thing a SMALL move is made towards GLOBAL headspace improving. :)
Click to expand...
I don't know if I agree about the small move towards progress thing. I believe these problems are way too serious and the scope in which they need to be tackled is much bigger than people think. I also apologize for the rah-rah comment; it was not aimed at you. Often times when people ask for advice on this forum it is turned into a joke. In this case PK (if he is indeed asking for advice) is not trying to decide HDV versus DVCProHD; it’s a bit more serious than that.

Confronting this individual will not change anything, except maybe he is forced to move and the 14 year old will have to go to the new address. Which might solve PK’s concern (out of sight out of mind), but I doubt it. I don’t know PK but I understand that he may teach at a local school and apparently does something on television. If that is the case I would suggest that PK use the tools he has available to him to solve this problem. Teach young adults that there are options to this lifestyle, and use the DVX to expose the level of child exploitation and put it on TV. Although I wouldn’t suggest using your neighbor as the example [he knows where you live]. I also think you might find that the public doesn’t really want to deal with those messages, if they did this scum bag would have spent more than three weeks in jail.

My point in all of this is that these are complex issues and should be taken seriously, especially in a culture that does not place that high a value on human life.
 
I'm with Chuck on this.

Good luck and godspeed PK on making a difference. It takes a different kind of person to really make changes in this world and not sit around and ***** about them. But this is a cultural thing and you're a school teacher staying in their country. Be careful.

Well then my advice is to tackle it from the municipal level and not at your neighbor and the pimp that drops the girls off; that's likely to get you beat and unles your carrying a gun that ain't an option.

Take this to the government level (Like you did with the helmets) if you wan't to make a difference. Isn't their law saying 18 and under is a crime or is prostituion a crime PERIOD?
 
ChuckS and John, well said and agreed. we definantly meant S M A L L steps.
PK, what you did with the helmets was incredible, and you surely have the mind and abilities to orchestrate positive change. we (and undoubtedly scads of others on this site) would love to contribute time\work\$$ to any future projects you kick off.
 
PK Gillock said:
Anhar - Could you please come here and talk to this guy? You might have better luck with him.
Click to expand...
Well, see, there you go. Anhar could talk to him, and if that doesn't work out, he could... well... he has other skills, y'know... :evil:
 
Chuck - Thanks for your responses. I understand your POV, but I must clarify a few things. You said, "don’t jeopardize you career or your life to clean up something that no one there really wants to clean up". Chuck, thanks for your concern and I agree. But this IS a problem that Thai people (once aware of how it effects them) want to clean up.

I'm really bad at explaining, but here's a few observations which might help explain why the problem is so big and why nothing is being done.

First of all, Thailand (a country known for sex) is the least sexual and affectionate country in the world. Thai people never hold hands in public, I've NEVER seen two Thai people kiss (in 3 years) - not even on TV, Pop/Rock/Rap songs are NEVER about sex, and NEVER do you here the word "sex" mentioned in casual conversation. They don't talk about anything sexual or show any affection. They rarely even talk about their significant other. Ex: I worked in an office for a year. One day I was invited to a wedding by the man who worked next to me. I didn't know he had a girlfriend. I then asked, "Who are you marrying?" He pointed to the girl sitting at the desk to my left. I was shocked. I was sitting between two hot Thai lovers and didn't even know it. (So much for having Spider-senses.) This office romance wasn't kept a secret because they might lose their job (they still work together and are about to have a baby - although they never talk about the baby). This was a typical Thai relationship in which affection and love are hidden. ...So why am I rambling about this? Because I tend to ramble and because the reason Thailand has a huge prostitution problem is because NOBODY talks about sex or even admits that they have it. So you can understand how a sex issue can manifest into a sex problem, if it's within an area of their culture that isn't suppose to be talked about.

Also, the Thai culture, although beautiful, has one huge flaw; It conflicts with progress and development. For 900 years the Thai people never explored, they never invented, and were not interested in doing much of anything that we westerners pride ourselves on. They farmed, ate, and had A LOT of festivals. Which is great! (I wish Thai people could influence us instead of the other way around.) But now consumerism has hit and Thailand wants to develop itself to compete with foreign markets and so teenagers can afford expensive products from the west. So how does a country suddenly develop overnight? It can't! Especially when your 900 year old culture tells you to just relax and don't worry about anything. That way of life can't buy a bigger TV than your neighbors. So they send their youngest daughter into Bangkok or Pattaya to earn some quick cash. They send their sons and fathers to Taiwan to work in factories. Usually coming back just as poor as before. So why am I rambling about this? Don't you remember, I'm a rambler :) ...and because it's obvious Thailand has skipped a few developmental steps that we westerners HAD to go through, so we could not only afford what thai people want (quality goods, services, and freedom to travel), but the ability to creat new jobs and new industries through innovation. Thailand hasn't built up an education system (one of the worst in Asia) to help create new jobs and industries (prostitution is 15% of the gross domestic product). It hasn't built up their economy (10th highest debt out of 193 countries). It hasn't learned about health issues (5th in alcohol consumption) and motorcycle accidents (don't get me started). Businesses and the government take advantage of the poor and uneducated (everywhere). The government isn't in any hurry to educate the people because the goverment wants control (more here than back in the US). But a new generation of youth are getting more involved. They are more aware and interested in the world around them and the problems that hurt their community.

I should stop here or this will become the longest post EVER.
 
Part II: Beating a Dead Horse

This area is the poorest region of Thailand. It's where a majority of the prostitutes (and Bangkok taxi drivers) come from. The Thai people who are educated and aware of this (because they talk about it) definitely want to help. They know it's hurting their people (AIDS), reputation, and the development of their country (prostitution promotes poverty). The Thai way is very passive (which is fine, sometimes) and most Thais will admit that their own people are lazy to work, lazy to think, and don't like to confront issues. That's like Miracle Grow for important developmental problems. Just ignore it and it will go away... or get bigger.

Chuck, you also said, "Teach young adults that there are options to this lifestyle". I agree and have been trying to do that for the past 2-3 years. I teach at an all girls college (actually 90% girls, 5% boys, and 5% ka-toys). Every English lesson has a life lesson hidden inside. We talk about local, national, and international issues. I don't preach my western beliefs on them. But I do show how these small problems can effect them. Most don't understand how corruption and prostitution hurts them personally. Most don't understand how cutting down all their trees will effect them in the the future. Once you show them the facts then they can make an "educated" decision on what they want to do. I understand it's not my position to make that decision for them. But if I have knowledge which my benefit them, I will share it. Or is that breaking the prime directive or a rule of time travel? :)

Ex: Once my students were aware of what was happening in my building they all got involved with signing a petition to help keep the man in jail. Once I showed pictures of how dirty a local school was, they volunteered to go and help clean it up. (pictures at http://www.isara.com)

I recently asked my students to write an essay on how they can help develop Thailand. They all had some real good suggestions and ideas. They wrote about education, corruption, prostitution, the environment, etc. But some simply responded, "I must first develop myself, before I can develop my country." Wow! My students sometimes teach me more than I teach them.

More and more knowledge is making it's way into the colleges and public schools. People are becoming more and more aware of issues and how they effect them. The only thing we're missing are effective solutions on how to fix the problems. Which education will eventually create.
 
Part III: This is the End

I'm not saying I know how to solve these problems or that I'm going about it the right way. But I do know this guy is wrong and he's part of the problem, not the solution. So every "battle" is worth it, if you feel it's worth fighting. Whether it's a sexual harrassment case at your office, a mistake on a phonebill, or anything that is important to you. It's better to fight and lose, then never to fight at all. (sorry to be cliche)

Sorry, but negative attitudes are what these scum bags rely on. They want people to turn their heads and not try to fight. They feed on that and that's how this guy got away with it for 30 years. He even admitted that he couldn't do this in his own country and that the Thai people let him do whatever he wants. Well, I'm not Thai and just because I'm in Thailand doesn't mean I'm going to stop fighting or caring. Even if I do piss off some people. Which, if you're going to piss some people off, it might as well be the pimps and ho's.

pk

P.S. Chuck, I know you weren't telling me not to do what I believe. Not all of this was directed at you and I agree with a lot of what you said. :) I just enjoy rambling.
 
well... you have a norse god at your disposal...

just give me a coherent list of people that need a smiten'....

"On the day of Ragnarok, Loki's chains will break and he will lead the giants into battle against the gods."
 
PK Gillock said:
It's better to fight and lose, then never to fight at all. (sorry to be cliche)
Click to expand...

So true... people are just too lazy to stand up for what they believe... or they just don't believe in anything anymore :cry:

If only there were more people like you PK and less like him!
 
John_Hudson said:
Well then hell...

Go upstairs and kick his ass.
Click to expand...

Sure....that's easy for a kinna Micky Rorke lookin dude to say!

The only reasons I could give for backing down are:

1) I can't stand the thoughts of P.K. no longer existing

2) Perhaps the amount of good you can do if you get out of there/back down/whatever besides getting killed, would far outweigh in the long run the amount of good that can be done in this one particular situation. Whatever would result in a literal Greater Good.
 
I been to hong kong and china i can say Its true about peopel not holding hand kissing or talk about sex but i know alot of them are closet cases and when they get home its freaks in the sheets. least this is my xperince it seems. but they are never openly affection or anything like its shameful to care for someone.
 
I'll have to agree with Chuck and John on this one. You don't need to confront every problem head on. Actually, you probably shouldn't do it unless you have overwhelming superiority, and you don't have that right now. You did the right thing by dealing with it through the authorities. But there's no need to endanger yourself.

I know you're passionate about this guy, but sometimes it's better to lose a battle so that you can live on to fight another day. There's probably thousands of people in Thailand just like him. That's probably why prostitution is so rampant. There's demand and there's supply.

Think of the long term. You can do a lot more good with your teaching. Tackle the real problem. Educate the people so that they can raise themselves out of this mess.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top